Full size 1911.....Kimber or Colt....why?

[AllenM]

seems like I need to post my DW CBOB another one i hate to let go of but one I don't shoot

 

[Leo]

This is not directed as a put down to anyone. I find it ironic that with the huge following of plastic pistols with stamped sheet metal fire control parts in the INGO community, that there would be so much hate for MIM metal.

 

[churchmouse]

This is not directed as a put down to anyone. I find it ironic that with the huge following of plastic pistols with stamped sheet metal fire control parts in the INGO community, that there would be so much hate for MIM metal.

No hate hear. I just understand its limits.

 

[halfmileharry]

This is not directed as a put down to anyone. I find it ironic that with the huge following of plastic pistols with stamped sheet metal fire control parts in the INGO community, that there would be so much hate for MIM metal.

Plastic pistols with MIM parts is a different story entirely.

 

[CindyE]

Make sure you shoot a bobbed 1911 before you buy one, if you haven't. It changes the feel in the hand a bit.

I have really small hands, if that matters.

 

[churchmouse]

I have really small hands, if that matters.

It may help you get a solid grip.

 

[CindyE]

I have and don't let internet fodder tell you that they don't work. (However, I don't know what kind of issues you had with them to not have a great experience.)

They put a smile on everyone's face that I have ever had shoot mine. I get the whole recoil junkie thing, but I also know a lot of those recoil junkies shooting powder puff loads through their larger caliber pistols at matches.

If you go with a reputable mfr, I can't imagine they would not stand behind the gun to get it right if you have problems.

I had a Springfield EMP in 9mm, but I just never really warmed up to that gun. Once it was broken in, it didn't have any real issues. The other 9mm we owned was a Kimber, it was not the Solo, it had CT grips. That thing jammed a lot. What would suggest?

 

[CindyE]

seems like I need to post my DW CBOB another one i hate to let go of but one I don't shoot

eeeek!!!

 

[churchmouse]

I had a Springfield EMP in 9mm, but I just never really warmed up to that gun. Once it was broken in, it didn't have any real issues. The other 9mm we owned was a Kimber, it was not the Solo, it had CT grips. That thing jammed a lot. What would suggest?

Oh boy.......Sell it.....

 

[BE Mike]

This is not directed as a put down to anyone. I find it ironic that with the huge following of plastic pistols with stamped sheet metal fire control parts in the INGO community, that there would be so much hate for MIM metal.

The huge following probably wouldn't notice the difference between MIM and tool steel internals. I certainly don't hate MIM, but I do like tool steel better in some guns.

 

[TBaker]

I'm not a professional shooter by any means. But I do stick to name brands when I make certain purchases. I have two first gen Kimbers. A Combat Carry and Custom CDP. Love those guns. Like someone else mentioned I think the older ones are better. I don't own a Colt but will get one someday just because it's the original. My dad does have an old Colt in .38 Super and it is amazing shooter. Personally I think either one would be fine or any of the others mentioned. Probably wouldn't go with a Norinco though.

 

[CindyE]

Oh boy.......Sell it.....

We did!

 

[dyerwatcher]

Dang you, INGO! Today I found myself searching for Dan Wesson 1911s online! IF I ever do start carrying a 1911, I'd really like one with the bobtail. I like the looks of the Guardian, but I have not had great experience with 1911 9mms.

I just bought a Guardian. It is perfect out of the case and amazingly accurate I bought it in 9mm.

 

[CindyE]

I just bought a Guardian. It is perfect out of the case and amazingly accurate I bought it in 9mm.

Good to know! Have you shot reloads or just factory ammo? We don't normally have trouble with our 9mm reloads, but we've had some 45 ACPs that are finicky.

 

[churchmouse]

CindyE....the compacts are very sensitive to grip and weak wrist techniques. My SIL snatched up my commander size 1911 as soon as he saw it. At the range he was having some stove pipes with it. I ran 4 mags through it with out issue. He was not "Addressing" the gun. They need to be handled.

 

[CindyE]

CindyE....the compacts are very sensitive to grip and weak wrist techniques. My SIL snatched up my commander size 1911 as soon as he saw it. At the range he was having some stove pipes with it. I ran 4 mags through it with out issue. He was not "Addressing" the gun. They need to be handled.

You are right. My husband is a big guy, with strong hands. It did it to him too, but not near as much as it did to me. I am a bit leery of compact 1911s, but would like to maybe consider one again someday...

 

[churchmouse]

You are right. My husband is a big guy, with strong hands. It did it to him too, but not near as much as it did to me. I am a bit leery of compact 1911s, but would like to maybe consider one again someday...

It is said that the new one from Springer is one to look into. I am a die hard Springer fanboy but this info is out there right now. Might want to look at them.

 

[2tonic]

This is not directed as a put down to anyone. I find it ironic that with the huge following of plastic pistols with stamped sheet metal fire control parts in the INGO community, that there would be so much hate for MIM metal.

I don't know if it rises to the level of hate, more like a general mistrust, based on mostly anecdotal evidence, with a smidgen of truth, tempered by common sense.
Couple points for your consideration:
The remark is usually something like "the MIM parts in my pistol have worked fine for X thousand rounds", with that X usually 2 or 3. Talk to me when the X is 28~30. I have 3 different 70 series Colt's that have each seen that round count. The barrels have been replaced several times, but the tool steel innards work as smooth as ever.

1911 designs rely on honed and stoned parts to achieve the desired function, and MIM parts do not seem to respond as well to this massaging, or hold those angles, once achieved. I do not personally know any "Mimber" owner who has had a part fail or break in pieces, but why tempt fate? There doesn't appear to be a radical cost savings to offset the potential performance shortcomings.

Here's where a little common sense blends with a personal anecdote.

The career in which I spent most of my life (touring sound design and operation) involved using hundreds of CM Lodestar electric chain hoists. A popular upgrade performed on these hoists when serviced was the addition of "sintered metal self-lubricating gears". That's an industrial-sounding name for MIM. These gears did increase the performance of the hoists and promised extended service periods, and then started a 100% fail rate pattern. The damage in the gear casings from these things grenading was stupendous, not to mention the safety hazard potential or inconvenience of having several tons of sound re-enforcement gear immobilized in mid-air due to a deceased hoist ( Hey, Riggers, overtime call!). Eventually a worldwide safety bulletin was issued prohibiting the use of these parts.

I never wanted to drop a 12,000 pound flybar array on an audiences heads, and I don't want my gun parts to fail. That's my logic. YMMV.

 

[88E30M50]

That's a good point about the internals of a 1911 being designed to require a honed surface to work properly where as the Glock has very few parts that require that level of finishing. That said, in my opinion, quality MIM parts, as delivered by Colt, Sig and Kimber are up to the task of meeting reliability requirements for a carry gun. If it's a special gun that is worked harder than the average carry gun will ever be worked, or needs a trigger that breaks like a glass rod, then tool steel is the way to go. But, for a carry gun that might see 1200 rounds a year, quality MIM parts are up to the task. I don't have the link, but a while back someone posted info about how MIM is used to make compressor blades in turbine engines. If MIM can stand those pressures, there is nothing in my 1911 that will turn it back into dust again.

The big caveat is that MIM can work if they are quality built MIM parts. I don't know how to tell the difference other than through experience and it seems like the MIM failures that folks talk about are with the low end guns like the RIA 1911s. I don't trust the MIM parts in there and replaced all of the internals in mine with the MIM parts left over when I upgraded my Colt Delta Elite to all tool steel internals. The RIA runs well with the transplant and I have confidence that it will keep doing so with the new parts and the Colt now has that special feel that you get when you run tool steel internal parts.

 

[JetGirl]

a while back someone posted info about how MIM is used to make compressor blades in turbine engines. If MIM can stand those pressures, there is nothing in my 1911 that will turn it back into dust again.

I've had conversations with people who build truck parts and some of the steel cracks before their MIM parts do. I realize there are probably different compositions of MIM...but still.
MIM in pistols gets a pass from this monkey. Until one of my many breaks...