Fanatical religious terrorist incident Colorado Springs.

[ArcadiaGP]

If every crime with some warped political angle is called terrorism, we'll have our police state sooner than later.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

No so much of a tricky wicket anymore:

The regional head of Planned Parenthood says the man who attacked its clinic in Colorado Springs "broke in" to the clinic but didn't get past a locked door leading to the main part of the facility.

The Latest: Lynch: Clinic shooting crime against women - US News

Any cites or info that he even tried to get past?

Now you're trying to twist words. "Leans right" ain't "right." I know exactly what I wrote, and I constructed my post that way on purpose. If I was completely confident that he was conservative, I would have simply said he was a right winger, not leaning that way.
But, if you have want to know how I came to my belief. I tell you. However note, individually each trait means nothing, but collectively they give a fairly good idea.
-Middle aged
-White
-Male
-Gun Owner
-Anti-abortionist
-Anti-Obama

Hits a lot of the hallmarks.

A couple of things you left off.
-Liberal arts degree
-Independent art dealer
-Registered unaffiliated
-Identified as female on voter registration
-Pot smoker

Yeah a couple of hallmarks but not conservative ones.

^^^ who is this guy that just popped up recently? Is he trying to make friends or something? Not that hard bro, most people have issues with my posts.

A little under two years is recent?

Colorado Gunman Told Police 'No More Baby Parts' | Officer.com

Yep and according to the same source (from a different article)

The official said that Mr. Dear “said a lot of things” during his interview, making it difficult for the authorities to pinpoint a specific motivation.

Seems like he helped set up a democratic republic, and despite what INGO often things, democratically elected officials aren't tyrants.

Just a couple of things he didn't help set up a democratic republic, it was a representational republic, also you left out a word "democratically elected officials aren't always tyrants."

How many times is he supposed to pass out the same info, to the same person? And we have no idea who else he passed that info out too. The point is, that he was passing out info. So it's a fair bet that he was at least "somewhat" politically motivated.

He could have not been passing out info so much as passing on. Since several neighbors have said he didn't talk to them about politics is it possible that he was given the pamphlet though it interesting and just passed it on to his neighbor?

He was prevented from full access to the clinic by security doors.

Where do you get that from? All I've heard is he didn't get passed a locked door, not even that he tried to get passed it. Also where do you get that it was a "security door"? My bathroom door has a lock on it and it most definitely isn't a security door. Per the PP president "Staff workers undergo regular training and drills for emergencies, such as an armed attack. But other than that, she said, there were no dedicated “safe rooms” or special security measures in place."

Who him was chasing him? I haven't heard that. What I have heard was that the entire incident took place at PP. I have no idea why we are still playing this game. There have been numerous instance, on this site, where we have had far less information, and conclusions have been drawn. No one is calling this guy representative of conservative thought. This guy targeted PP. The mayor has inferred this, an unnamed source attributes a pretty damning statement to him. I have no qualms is saying that people should, at this point, have a solid based for forming an opinion about this situation.

Who was chasing him? I'd say the police at the time he broke in to PP per the timeline posted people were down at what appears to be about 1/4 mile away at the grocery store.

11:44
“At least one victim in the parking lot of Elite Vision, one at the King Soopers, one in the parking lot of Planned Parenthood and possibly a couple of additional others in other locations.”

He was also engaging the police from behind the building before he went around front and broke in.

11:45
“I just got shot at. He’s behind Planned Parenthood.”

11:48
“The suspect is not moving. He’s staying behind the building, shooting from the southwest corner. He’s shooting down those officers that are south of the building. Just keep your cover.”

12:00
“The shooter is in a barricade situation inside the Planned Parenthood.”

No. CSPD has a reputation of competence.

Good detectives don't run their bacon holes to the media until everything gets turned over to the Prosecuting Attorney, if then.

Then it is a poor detective which is the source of the leaks?

 

[hoosierdoc]

could be a secretary or a janitor who disclosed the leaks

 

[Timjoebillybob]

You are the only one that heard it. You had to be anonymous because It is an ongoing investigation. Now how exactly do es the anonymity keep you from repercussions with the department for unauthorized disclosure when you are the only one to put it in your report.

Do you ASSUME only one person heard this statement and not a group of people? With an arrest like this, there are dozens of people around.

Also even if it was only one person that heard it and put it in their report, doesn't mean they are the only one that sees it. I'm going to guess that just about everyone from file clerks on up have access.

Actually I looked it up on google earth and the bank is a thousand yards away across a big parking lot a road and a large open field. It looks like the PP is the likely objective and that Dear made the worst planned and executed attack of all time.

It only looks like a couple of hundred feet to me, and one of the victims was at the grocery store which is past the bank.

So...now we want back stories and interviews with neighbours, etc. Didn't we just agree after the whack job who killed the people in the historically black church to NOT glorify these idiots with publicity?

Don't need to glorify them or give them publicity to report. Rather than use it's name and picture just refer to it as "scum sucker" "****head" "dickwad" etc.

Did I not post the link identifying two such casualties?

Not necessarily.

Planned Parenthood reported that because the male victim was there to pick up his wife and the female victim was there to comfort/support a friend. Neither victim was a staff member nor a patient.

I haven't seen it reported that the male victim was there to pick up his wife, do you have a cite? And just because the female victim had a friend there that she was to comfort/support doesn't mean she was at PP when shot. She could have ran out for sushi. From reports the sushi guy at the grocery store stated he just kept rolling sushi because he didn't know what else to do.

Why?

You read that he could not get past the security door, right? He likely bounced off the security door and then shot the two in the waiting room, or shot the two in the waiting room and then tried to make it to more targets but bounced off the security door.

I read that he didn't make it past a locked door, nothing about him even trying to get past it, just that he didn't.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/us/siege-highlights-security-used-in-abortion-clinics.html?_r=0

If they have bulletproof vests in a safe room, I think it's a reasonable assumption they have real security doors.

That contradicts what the local PP president had to say about the place.

Staff workers undergo regular training and drills for emergencies, such as an armed attack. But other than that, she said, there were no dedicated “safe rooms” or special security measures in place.

“It’s built as a health center that has comfortable rooms for patients and good flow for efficiency,” Cowart said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...42b2cc-961e-11e5-8aa0-5d0946560a97_story.html

So exactly what kind of door it is/was is a valid question.

could be a secretary or a janitor who disclosed the leaks

Yep it could have been. But in the spirit of jumping to conclusions in this thread, odds are it was a dirty cop on the take from the news orgs.

 

[chezuki]

could be a secretary or a janitor who disclosed the leaks

Oh, so now all secretaries and janitors are corrupt?!? Is there no end to your bigotry doc??

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I haven't seen it reported that the male victim was there to pick up his wife, do you have a cite?

It was on NPR last night, but you can read it here: Civilians killed in Planned Parenthood shooting identified as mother of 2, Iraq war veteran | Fox News

The second civilian killed was identified as Ke’Arre Stewart, 29, Amburh Butler, a lifelong friend and family spokeswoman told the Associated Press.
Butler said that Stewart was accompanying someone to the clinic, and leaves behind two girls, 11 and 5, who live in Texas.

Stewart served in the Army's Fourth Infantry Division and was deployed to Iraq, where Butler said he would often send her letters describing the horrors he saw on the front lines.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Oh, so now all secretaries and janitors are corrupt?!? Is there no end to your bigotry doc??

Yes, there is. In fact, it's just behind you on the ground. Go ahead and turn around, bend over, and look real hard. I'm positive you'll get a kick out of it!

 

[chipbennett]

I'm still trying to make sense of the timeline (e.g. why was he shooting at police from behind the clinic, 10 minutes before ever even entering the clinic?). It's possible that the clinic was his intended target all along, but so much still doesn't make sense.

And there is still no public evidence, that I've seen, to support the "religious fanatic" angle.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'm still trying to make sense of the timeline (e.g. why was he shooting at police from behind the clinic, 10 minutes before ever even entering the clinic?). It's possible that the clinic was his intended target all along, but so much still doesn't make sense.

And there is still no public evidence, that I've seen, to support the "religious fanatic" angle.

That's because this is all about claiming the high moral ground and casting your political/ideological enemy in as a bad light as possible. Anti-gun/anti-religious/anti-pro-life people are so looking to finally hang one of these on the tri-vecta they long for, they can't stand it.

(Disclaimer: I know "we" have whack-dos on "our" side as well. And when s/he goes on a shooting rampage, they'll deserve whatever fate falls on them).

 

[Timjoebillybob]

It was on NPR last night, but you can read it here: Civilians killed in Planned Parenthood shooting identified as mother of 2, Iraq war veteran | Fox News

Thanks for the link I hadn't heard/seen it before. Any info on where he or the lady were when shot? Inside PP, in the parking lot, down the street?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Any info on where he or the lady were when shot inside PP, in the parking lot, down the street?

Nothing definitive (as per usual).

 

[Dead Duck]

One victim tried to save others.
I'd like to know where the soldiers gun was. Doesn't anyone carry there?

Planned Parenthood Victim Ke'Arre Stewart Tried to Save Others - NBC News

 

[MisterChester]

That's because this is all about claiming the high moral ground and casting your political/ideological enemy in as a bad light as possible. Anti-gun/anti-religious/anti-pro-life people are so looking to finally hang one of these on the tri-vecta they long for, they can't stand it.

(Disclaimer: I know "we" have whack-dos on "our" side as well. And when s/he goes on a shooting rampage, they'll deserve whatever fate falls on them).

I know they are trying hard, and how this perp could be right-wing nut is plausible with the info we have currently. They're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks because it is simply plausible and not confirmed.

 

[Expat]

I know they are trying hard, and how this perp could be right-wing nut is plausible with the info we have currently. They're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks because it is simply plausible and not confirmed.

I think the public will look at him, living in his trailer out in the desert or his shack in the carolinas with no power, electric, running water, etc. and have a hard time seeing him as somehow part of the great right wing anti abortion conspiracy.

 

[Doug]

One victim tried to save others.
I'd like to know where the soldiers gun was. Doesn't anyone carry there?

Planned Parenthood Victim Ke'Arre Stewart Tried to Save Others - NBC News

If the soldier's viewpoint was like his brother's, he probably wasn't carrying. His brother blames lax gun laws, not the shooter, for the soldier's death.

 

[cobber]

One victim tried to save others.
I'd like to know where the soldiers gun was. Doesn't anyone carry there?

Planned Parenthood Victim Ke'Arre Stewart Tried to Save Others - NBC News

Silly rabbit! You don't need a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun. Real 'anti-violence warriors' use their superhuman powers.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I know they are trying hard, and how this perp could be right-wing nut is plausible with the info we have currently. They're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks because it is simply plausible and not confirmed.

This guy and PP are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I forgot to mention this earlier.

In a statement released late Saturday, Attorney General Loretta Lynch called the shooting a "crime against women receiving healthcare services at Planned Parenthood."

I'm going to state that this shooting had absolutely nothing to do with PP. Since odds say that when the administration speaks out or states something before all the facts are in they have been wrong what 100% of the time?

And this. Why not release the actual statements, not necessarily the witnesses names but what was supposedly said? Also if these were eyewitnesses and I'm going out on a limb and guess they were in PP why weren't they killed?

Vicki Cowart, president and CEO of Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, said in a statement Dear "eyewitnesses confirm that the man ... was motivated by opposition to safe and legal abortion."

 

[chipbennett]

That's because this is all about claiming the high moral ground and casting your political/ideological enemy in as a bad light as possible. Anti-gun/anti-religious/anti-pro-life people are so looking to finally hang one of these on the tri-vecta they long for, they can't stand it.

(Disclaimer: I know "we" have whack-dos on "our" side as well. And when s/he goes on a shooting rampage, they'll deserve whatever fate falls on them).

Here's the deal: it would seem that - as with almost all such murderers - this guy doesn't have a "side". He's not "ours" or "theirs". He's a nut.

When people are nuts, they're first and foremost: nuts. They may exhibit characteristics that align with some ideology or another, or none at all. It's all coincidental. Nuts is nuts.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Here's the deal: it would seem that - as with almost all such murderers - this guy doesn't have a "side". He's not "ours" or "theirs". He's a nut.

When people are nuts, they're first and foremost: nuts. They may exhibit characteristics that align with some ideology or another, or none at all. It's all coincidental. Nuts is nuts.

Agreed. But there's a anti-gun/anti-pro-life/anti-religion narrative the must come to fruition for certain world views to be validated. And everytime one of these sad events happen, there are those that latch onto any shred of evidence to show the narrative has been fulfilled. Nearly everytime, they're found to be wrong. Instead, seems like we see ding-bats shooting at fleeing shop lifters, otherwise legal gun owners spacing it and forgetting to make sure their luggage is gun free when they go to the airport, or somebody coon-fingering a the EDC while sitting on the toilet.