Elmore's/thread lock/FFL questions

[IndyGunworks]

Q. Do these recordkeeping requirements
apply to the sale of personal firearms?
A. Under certain circumstances, a licensed
dealer is exempt from the requirements to
complete an ATF Form 4473 and to initiate
a background check under the Brady law
when selling a firearm from his or her
personal firearms collection. 18 U.S.C.
923(c) and 27 CFR 478.125a. Transfers of
personal firearms are exempt from these
requirements only if the following
conditions are met:​

​

​

​

​

First, the licensee must have recorded
in the bound book the acquisition of
the firearm.​

​

​

​

​

Second, the licensee must have
recorded in the bound book, as a
disposition, the transfer of the firearm​

from the business inventory to the

personal firearms collection or other
acquisition of the personal firearm.​

​

​

​

​

Third, the licensee must have maintained
the firearm as part of his or her personal
firearms collection for 1 year from the
date the firearm was transferred to the
personal collection, as shown in the
bound book.​

​

​

​

​

Finally, the licensee must record the
transfer in his or her disposition records
of personal firearms, in the format set
forth in the regulations. This means that
the licensee must record, from his or her
personal collection, specified identifying
information about the firearm; the date
of the sale or other disposition; and the
name, address, and date of birth of the
transferee (or, if the transferee is a
licensee, the name and business address
of the transferee). In addition, the
licensee shall cause any unlicensed
transferee to be identified in any manner
customarily used in commercial
transactions (e.g., a driver’s license).​

 

[WestSider]

Interesting thread. I have only been in there a couple times. It does seem to be a huge local cop hang out from what I have seen. They were nice enough, but I didn't think their prices were anything to write home about. They put night sights on my 9c for me. They did mar the front sight a tiny bit, but I wasn't upset as it is a carry gun and is going to get dinged here and there a little.

 

[Zoub]

I'm checking out of this thread.

I am considering negative repping you for lying, be it intentional or unintentional. It's what I do, I keep it real.

 

[miguel]

Damn, this big juicy thread and all I did was work all day!

Is it just me, or does anyone else think if we swapped out "Elmore's" with "Don's" this wouldn't be a 17 page thread and there would be no rancor over it?

Just sayin...

 

[IndyMonkey]

I am considering negative repping you for lying, be it intentional or unintentional. It's what I do, I keep it real.

When I lied no one died.

I read that somewhere.

I couldnt keep away.

 

[buzzard pickins]

Now that's freakin funny.I don't care what you think, Printcraft deserves rep.lmao

 

[LEaSH]

Printcraft always deserves rep but I don't think he said the funny.

 

[paddling_man]

I laughed, I cried, I got mad... this was a fun 170 post thread to read through.

I need another Scotch.

 

[smitty12b]

I laughed, I cried, I got mad... this was a fun 170 post thread to read through.

I need another Scotch.

I am very surprised and impressed that this thread has lasted this long. It got off track quite a bit and started to take a few nasty turns but managed to stay unlocked. I guess it proves that INGO can have a sometimes heated discussion and still remain somewhat civilized. +1 to all involved.

Now if we can keep Indymonkey from talking about wieners we should be good to go

 

[loony1]

You never really know why threads are locked. Sure things may of gotten personal but this topic is a pretty big deal. Of course you never know what personal relationship the mods have with elmores either.

yep, i get flamed on another site for doing the same thing (talk about elmore's descrepancies) oh well, maybe certain folks save a few bucks at elmore's by being buds. I have since changed my loyalty to a small shop in Beech Grove..........

 

[loony1]

Interesting thread. I have only been in there a couple times. It does seem to be a huge local cop hang out from what I have seen. They were nice enough, but I didn't think their prices were anything to write home about. They put night sights on my 9c for me. They did mar the front sight a tiny bit, but I wasn't upset as it is a carry gun and is going to get dinged here and there a little.

yep i made the same mistake (let them put nightsites on my gun) i will be spending the next shoot trying to zero them ( hk usp) oh well, bye, bye, russ.

 

[thompal]

I don't know that moderators are trying to lean the board in the favor of one shop or another or trying to protect somebody (certainly not the case in the many flame boards about Don's and Pop Guns) but IndyMonkey is right, everyone has some sort of preference towards one store or another.

I suspect that it's more basic than that. I used to run a Fidonet BBS, and used to have a lawyer as a wife, so I got the concept drilled into me regularly.

If a forum mod controls what is posted on their forum, they become "responsible" for any posts which may break a law, or which may be libelous.

The difference between the Don's/Pop Gun posts and this is that the Don's Guns/Pop Guns posts says that they charge high prices, are often somewhat less than helpful, and often give incorrect info to make a sale. None of these things accuse them of a crime. They can also be verified by a large number of the people on here.

Conversely, the post about Elmore's accuses them of committing a crime, which, if untrue, would constitute liable. Since it is not a well-known act by them, the mods have no way to verify it. If they allow the thread to continue, Elmore's heard about it and could prove it untrue, then they could sue the forum mods.

IANAL, but used to be married to one.

 

[thompal]

YES, because you were knowingly breaking the law. is it wrong to take an item from a store that you DIDNT PAY FOR, knowing that you would come back later and pay? YES, its called STEALING. this is no differant.

Not a good analogy. If a store owner tells you to take something, try it, and if you like it, to come back and pay him, do you honestly think you are stealing? If the store owner knows you, I would call it good customer service. If he doesn't know you, I would call it stupid, but he may win a new dedicated customer.

As far as the paperwork, IF a store owner lets you take a gun without getting approval from BATF, WHO has committed a crime? I would say the store employee who let you take the gun. I think the law requires a store to get approval before the sale. I don't think the law requires the customer to verify that the store got that approval.

 

[thompal]

If they are doing thing like this then they are not one of the "better local gun shops". Would you consider it a "minor infraction" if a illegally purchased weapon was used against someone you care about? If they are not checking people then who knows who they are selling to.

Are you suggesting that I would feel better about it if someone who got BATF approval murdered someone I cared about?

Maybe we should outlaw murder and robbery, and that would prevent crimes even by people who got approved!

 

[Eprobertson1]

I was wondering when this thread would really get off track. I think it has at this point.

 

[mospeada]

I haven't seen this many people thrown under the bus since Barry O's campaign last year and it took him a year to do it. My fave tho is the Gen Con attendees, man, when you've run out of folks to toss under the greyhound, nothing's quite as satisfying as hucking a nerd under a goodyear!

 

[smitty12b]

I haven't seen this many people thrown under the bus since Barry O's campaign last year and it took him a year to do it. My fave tho is the Gen Con attendees, man, when you've run out of folks to toss under the greyhound, nothing's quite as satisfying as hucking a nerd under a goodyear!

The gen-con guys will be fine...they have the force to protect them

 

[Eddie]

The gen-con guys will be fine...they have the force to protect them

Unless of course they miss their saving throw...

 

[tbone1951]

Not going into much detail, but I could have bought C-4 and det cord from Russ at one time in the past.
Yes I saw it, he had it in a drawer under the gun shelf.

 

[JBusch8899]

............you're right that it's pointless to argue with the moderators.......... I'm sorry that you don't like the way INGO is run. I'm sure there are other boards out there that might fit you better.

Seems to be the very sentiment exercised by a select few. I don't foresee it changing anytime soon.