Elmore's/thread lock/FFL questions

[300sx]

i do agree that they need to call in everyone that they send out the door with a gun.. if they are breaking the law i hope justice is served..Is there anyway around this though by saying they sold the gun on some sort of consignment deal for a friend? I was told by a gun shop one time they would sell me this pistol, some guy brought in to sell and they havent put it on the books yet.. they said cash with no paperwork..and i believe he was an officer working there that told me this..


but i dont know laws and it seems like Indiana has a light law on transferring firearms from private sellers..

 

[Joe Williams]

First, thanks for posting a legit question. I think the store has still screwed up by letting a person take a gun out the door without doing a check, even if it's a family member, the laws, like them or not, are there for a reason. If they call and say bring it back, what is the buyer's motivation to return it?

Not just letting him go out the door. IIRC, they aren't allowed to even sell him the gun without calling in first. IOW, if money changes hands without the call being made, the law has already been broken.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Not just letting him go out the door. IIRC, they aren't allowed to even sell him the gun without calling in first. IOW, if money changes hands without the call being made, the law has already been broken.

not quite... some places require money to change hands before the call is made, but possession cannot be granted until after a successful check.

 

[femurphy77]

E5ranger and I had a private discussion and made nice. While I still believe he could have phrased his comment better, I no longer believe it was intended as a swipe and I want to apologize publicly for over-reacting. I also want to apologize to smitty for potentially derailing his thread.

Aw Gee, just when it was getting good!!!

 

[shooter521]

not quite... some places require money to change hands before the call is made, but possession cannot be granted until after a successful check.

Think layaways, too. Money changes hands (up to and including paying in full) well before the background check is called in.

 

[smitty12b]

Think layaways, too. Money changes hands (up to and including paying in full) well before the background check is called in.

Shooter, not meaning to thread jack my own thread, but are you shooting Sunday? I think they should put all the saiga guys together as not to offend or scare the tube feeders

 

[AllenM]

I have a question for the FFL's on here. I was to understand if you own a gun for more than a year it is considered from your personal collection and can be sold with out a background check.
Did I hear wrong? Could this have been the case?

 

[SavageEagle]

Not just letting him go out the door. IIRC, they aren't allowed to even sell him the gun without calling in first. IOW, if money changes hands without the call being made, the law has already been broken.

The money can change hands and it still be legal. The law breaking starts once the gun leaves the shop BEFORE the check. So he can pay for every gun in the store, but the moment one leaves before the check is made, that's when the law is broken.

EDIT: Yeah, What all them said. Dang you guys are on it.

 

[smitty12b]

I have a question for the FFL's on here. I was to understand if you own a gun for more than a year it is considered from your personal collection and can be sold with out a background check.
Did I hear wrong? Could this have been the case?

I am NOT a ffl holder but I know this to be true. I have purchased a gun from a ffl's personal collection without the paperwork. I don't know if the law is different for a store vs someone who does transfers.

 

[shooter521]

Shooter, not meaning to thread jack my own thread, but are you shooting Sunday?

You talking about the speed shotgun match @ ACC? Unfortunately, no, I won't be there. Working.

 

[smitty12b]

You talking about the speed shotgun match @ ACC? Unfortunately, no, I won't be there. Working.

Yep, that sucks, it should be fun.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I have a question for the FFL's on here. I was to understand if you own a gun for more than a year it is considered from your personal collection and can be sold with out a background check.
Did I hear wrong? Could this have been the case?

i asked specifically about this in my interview with the atf, and she told me that if it was a private gun, i had to log it into my ffl, and transfer it that way. and thats the way i continue to operate. i am pretty sure that once you are an FFL anygun that you sell to an individual must go through the FFL

 

[AllenM]

Thanks for the clarification

 

[irishfan]

i asked specifically about this in my interview with the atf, and she told me that if it was a private gun, i had to log it into my ffl, and transfer it that way. and thats the way i continue to operate. i am pretty sure that once you are an FFL anygun that you sell to an individual must go through the FFL

I was told the same exact thing by a guy who is an FFL. He said that if he wanted to have a gun for his personal collection then he had to log it and go through the process on himself just like if it was to a random customer. After the weapon is recorded and it is part of his collection then he can sell it to me in a personal one on one sale just like any of the rest of us.

 

[ironjaw]

well said smitty12b. but i would like to say that i wouldnt have called the atf. for the simple reason that the atf already has WYATTS in cicero shut down from selling guns and i think the government should just keep out ofgun shops to a certain degree. secondly elmores was probably busy and ranger was a repeat cust. and they were in the 'zone' on trying to sell more guns.

 

[Expat]

well said smitty12b. but i would like to say that i wouldnt have called the atf. for the simple reason that the atf already has WYATTS in cicero shut down from selling guns and i think the government should just keep out ofgun shops to a certain degree. secondly elmores was probably busy and ranger was a repeat cust. and they were in the 'zone' on trying to sell more guns.

You forget:

 

[boozoo]

Personally, I would have thought having a discussion with the folks at Elmores should have been a first step in any of this drama. Give them an opportunity to explain themselves better. Explain to them that they can and WILL bring the wrath of the ATF down upon their own heads eventually, and that skirting the reg's will effectively screw over not just themselves but the gun community in the area when they get shut down. "Do it right or don't do it at all."

If you know back door deals or straw man purchases are going on (to the point of being provable), a discussion obviously won't do much. At that point... I do think the ATF should shut an FFL down. But right now all I am "hearing" is speculation and hearsay. I don't like seeing someone's name and reputation get trashed over pure gossip.

 

[6birds]

for the simple reason that the atf already has WYATTS in cicero shut down from selling guns

Really? Where did you hear that?

Miles explained to me it was his screw-up on the new FFL.

 

[Michiana]

Regulation on FFL's personal firearm sales

FFL's and personal firearms.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2006-03.pdf

 

[Josh Ward]

Personally, I would have thought having a discussion with the folks at Elmores should have been a first step in any of this drama. Give them an opportunity to explain themselves better. Explain to them that they can and WILL bring the wrath of the ATF down upon their own heads eventually, and that skirting the reg's will effectively screw over not just themselves but the gun community in the area when they get shut down. "Do it right or don't do it at all."

If you know back door deals or straw man purchases are going on (to the point of being provable), a discussion obviously won't do much. At that point... I do think the ATF should shut an FFL down. But right now all I am "hearing" is speculation and hearsay. I don't like seeing someone's name and reputation get trashed over pure gossip.