Donald J. Trump. Messiah? Poopiehead? Discuss...

[Birds Away]

No I think you missed what I was trying to say. I don't see Charlottesville having anything to do with ANTIFA

Because that wasn't what the MSM wanted you to see. Again, I don't bring this up to excuse anything the WS, WN, etc. did. I'm simply saying that there were leftist groups there who were just as violently engaged.

Why can't we condemn all the senseless violence regardless of what side it's on?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Because that wasn't what the MSM wanted you to see. Again, I don't bring this up to excuse anything the WS, WN, etc. did. I'm simply saying that there were leftist groups there who were just as violently engaged.

Why can't we condemn all the senseless violence regardless of what side it's on?

This fair, as far as the violent participants, on either side, they were both wrong.

 

[Birds Away]

This fair, as far as the violent participants, on either side, they were both wrong.

Thank you, sir.
I think everyone with a functioning brain can agree that WS, WN and neo Nazis are a scourge upon our nation. If I could think of a method of ridding ourselves of them without actually becoming just as bad as them, I would.
I also think any group that would use violence to suppress other people's right of free speech, however righteous they think they are, is essentially evil at its core and should also be considered a scourge upon the nation. They also should be vigorously condemned by the national media.

 

[Dddrees]

Because that wasn't what the MSM wanted you to see. Again, I don't bring this up to excuse anything the WS, WN, etc. did. I'm simply saying that there were leftist groups there who were just as violently engaged.

Why can't we condemn all the senseless violence regardless of what side it's on?

Ok, now I'm getting an explanation. If you did this before I'm sorry I missed it in the heat of the discussion. We've been argueing for days and either I unfortunately missed this point or failed to give it much credit.

Unfortunately we may still have reached a point where we will fail to agree. It seems there's just very little room for give on this from either side of this coin.

Yes I'm certain that ANTIFA was present. In fact I'm certain they will be present at any of these NEO Nazi and White supremacist rallies. But the fact that WS and NEO Nazis exist is repugnant. Sorry they just win the dispecable of dispecable contest. Now when ANTIFA exist long enough to mass murder, linch, torture, and be responsible for all the heinous crimes these groups have committed then and only then might we begin to focus on them when all three groups are put side by side. Besides when you talk WS and NEO Nazis protesting and compare that to those who are there to protest the protest then ANTIFA tends to get a bit of cover.

Keep in mind I'm not saying ANTIFAs actions are acceptable,

 

[Birds Away]

Ok, now I'm getting an explanation. If you did this before I'm sorry I missed it in the heat of the discussion. We've been argueing for days and either I unfortunately missed this point or failed to give it much credit.

Unfortunately we may still have reached a point where we will fail to agree. It seems there's just very little room for give on this from either side of this coin.

Yes I'm certain that ANTIFA was present. In fact I'm certain they will be present at any of these NEO Nazi and White supremacist rallies. But the fact that WS and NEO Nazis exist is repugnant. Sorry they just win the dispecable of dispecable contest. Now when ANTIFA exist long enough to mass murder, linch, torture, and be responsible for all the heinous crimes these groups have committed then and only then might we begin to focus on them when all three groups are put side by side. Besides when you talk WS and NEO Nazis protesting and compare that to those who are there to protest the protest then ANTIFA tends to get a bit of cover.

Keep in mind I'm not saying ANTIFAs actions are acceptable,

You are conflating these WS, WN neo Nazis with the actual Nazis of history and this is false. These idiots are just a bunch of stupid rednecks who want to elevate themselves from their ****ty little lives by belonging to something powerful and righteous. But what they've done is associated themselves, and thus become, the dregs of society. To our knowledge they haven't killed anyone until Saturday.
On the other hand you have the socialists who want to oppress the rights on anyone who doesn't agree with them and they are willing to use violence to that end.

What you saw on Saturday was a snapshot of the 30's Weimar Republic where Nazis and Socialists battled in the streets. That has no place in America and neither do either of these groups, IMO. They are not representative of our shared values and can only bring more violence and hatred wherever they go.

 

[indiucky]

This fair, as far as the violent participants, on either side, they were both wrong.

Hmmmm...Kut's biscuits and gravy are delicious on a morning when there is mourning...As always Sir Kut the Consistent....

 

[Dddrees]

You are conflating these WS, WN neo Nazis with the actual Nazis of history and this is false. These idiots are just a bunch of stupid rednecks who want to elevate themselves from their ****ty little lives by belonging to something powerful and righteous. But what they've done is associated themselves, and thus become, the dregs of society. To our knowledge they haven't killed anyone until Saturday.
On the other hand you have the socialists who want to oppress the rights on anyone who doesn't agree with them and they are willing to use violence to that end.

What you saw on Saturday was a snapshot of the 30's Weimar Republic where Nazis and Socialists battled in the streets. That has no place in America and neither do either of these groups, IMO. They are not representative of our shared values and can only bring more violence and hatred wherever they go.

Well like I said I think this is one we're just going to have to say we agree to disagree. It happens but sometimes the best of people cannot seem to agree. It doesn't mean we didn't get something from it we just fail to agree on this particular matter. Works that way sometimes.

 

[Birds Away]

True, some people simply can't overcome their ideological bias.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Hmmmm...Kut's biscuits and gravy are delicious on a morning when there is mourning...As always Sir Kut the Consistent....

I make some great B&Gs. It's legendary.

 

[Birds Away]

I haven't had any good B&Gs for the longest.

 

[Dddrees]

True, some people simply can't overcome their ideological bias.

See this is the kind of remark that will get us nowhere, I take it more as an insult rather than an acknowledgement that for whatever reason on this one we just fail to agree because we possibly see things differently. Maybe I can get you to see this and maybe this animosity will just tend to drive a wedge between us.

 

[Birds Away]

See this is the kind of remark that will get us nowhere, I take it more as an insult rather than an acknowledgement that for whatever reason on this one we just fail to agree because we possibly see things differently. Maybe I can get you to see this and maybe this animosity will just tend to drive a wedge between us.

It wasn't meant as an insult but as a acknowledgement of where we ended up. You see the Antifa folks as representing some beliefs that you may have in common. Obviously, that can't be said about the other side. Therefore you can't equate them in any way. I get that. I too have nothing in common with the one side and believe them to be repugnant. However, I also believe the Antifa folks are repugnant. I refuse to laud them simply because they are fighting someone I also hate. What they stand for is almost as despicable as those they are fighting. They shouldn't get any points for that. The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend.

 

[Dddrees]

It wasn't meant as an insult but as a acknowledgement of where we ended up. You see the Antifa folks as representing some beliefs that you may have in common. Obviously, that can't be said about the other side. Therefore you can't equate them in any way. I get that. I too have nothing in common with the one side and believe them to be repugnant. However, I also believe the Antifa folks are repugnant. I refuse to laud them simply because they are fighting someone I also hate. What they stand for is almost as despicable as those they are fighting. They shouldn't get any points for that. The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend.

But I did and that maybe my fault. But that's why I said it because I hardly ever just walk away. Generally I demand clarification especially if I believe it too be. Thanks for the clarification.

Frankly and honestly I don't have any idea really who ANTIFA is so I have no idea what they represent, They well might be repugnant and in fact because you used that terminology at this point conversing with you as I have I'll take your word until proven differently. Repugnant is rarely used in conjunction with a group of people by reasonable people when it is not justified.

So although they are repugnant and their actions should be vilified Trump screwed up. His both sides statement was milk toast. there is a specific place in many people mind and not their heart for WS and Neo Nazis. I for one am ignorant to who ANTIFA is. But I'm not ignorant to who WS and Neo Nazis are, So he GOOFED, he miss stepped, he missed the boat, he messed up, Naming names was very important here. The backlash he faced was not just from MSM if you think that I think your failing to see something here.

 

[2A_Tom]

I don't know what groups were there, I have heard WS and Neo N (I do not know if that is a description of their views or actual groups) the KKK is definitely bad, but were Oath Keepers and a group of Decendants of Confederate Soldiers also there, are they bad groups?

My point is that there may have been folk on both sides thst were not spoiling for a fight.

 

[actaeon277]

Don't know who antifa is??????

Well, they use violence to suppress free speech.

Kind of like.... fascists.


https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...scussion/436358-everything-antifa-thread.html

 

[Birds Away]

I don't know what groups were there, I have heard WS and Neo N (I do not know if that is a description of their views or actual groups) the KKK is definitely bad, but were Oath Keepers and a group of Decendants of Confederate Soldiers also there, are they bad groups?

My point is that there may have been folk on both sides thst were not spoiling for a fight.

Oath Keepers aren't associated with anything bad that I know of. Other than falling under the label of "right wing" which, of course, makes us all deplorable.

 

[Dddrees]

Don't know who antifa is??????

Well, they use violence to suppress free speech.

Kind of like.... fascists.


https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...scussion/436358-everything-antifa-thread.html

No I don't but maybe I should take a look.

Thanks

Regardless I very much doubt they have a Rep that comes anywhere close to WS and Neo Nazis. And I very much doubt they are as widely known either.

 

[Birds Away]

So although they are repugnant and their actions should be vilified Trump screwed up. His both sides statement was milk toast. there is a specific place in many people mind and not their heart for WS and Neo Nazis. I for one am ignorant to who ANTIFA is. But I'm not ignorant to who WS and Neo Nazis are, So he GOOFED, he miss stepped, he missed the boat, he messed up, Naming names was very important here. The backlash he faced was not just from MSM if you think that I think your failing to see something here.

Antifa isn't really vilified on the left because, well, they are on the left. The left believes that the right doesn't denounce in strong enough terms the radical losers that attach themselves to the right. Of course, they feel no obligation to denounce violent radicals on the left. That's what is so damn aggravating. Yes, Trump should have denounced those groups in the strongest possible terms and, for the sake of the MSM and all of their Koolaid drinkers, given a pass to the violent radicals on the left. That's how the game is played these days.

 

[Dddrees]

Antifa isn't really vilified on the left because, well, they are on the left. The left believes that the right doesn't denounce in strong enough terms the radical losers that attach themselves to the right. Of course, they feel no obligation to denounce violent radicals on the left. That's what is so damn aggravating. Yes, Trump should have denounced those groups in the strongest possible terms and, for the sake of the MSM and all of their Koolaid drinkers, given a pass to the violent radicals on the left. That's how the game is played these days.

They may very well be. But as far as who Trump needed to name or not in this case we disagree. Like I said that happens sometimes. I made the best case I had at the time and so did you but we just weren't able to convince each other to change our mind on this one.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Repugnant is rarely used in conjunction with a group of people by reasonable people when it is not justified.

This is where you seem to be missing the point. It's not so much about who is "repugnant" and who is not, as much as it is who gets to define what is justified and what is not.

You keep slithering this way and that way to avoid confronting the fact that some of the people on the side that you support committed violent acts during that event.