Donald J. Trump. Messiah? Poopiehead? Discuss...

[jamil]

Nah, I wasn't speaking of all his supporters, just the one's in Charlottesville who were at the Rally. Now those same people are probably mad. His original message was really weak. The one he gave today was much better. I applaud him for it. He sounded presidential, and the talking heads on the news channels that are giving him grief, I disagree with.

As weak as it was, didn't David Duke admonish Trump right after the first statement, feigning unearned relevance as a reminder of who helped elect him?

 

[jbombelli]

Ahhh yes. David Duke. The media is always ready to give that irrelevant nut job POS airtime when it suits their agenda.

 

[Route 45]

 

[Dddrees]

Timeline appears to have occurred after his second attempt to get it right.

 

[Dddrees]

Timeline was after his second attempt, is it not?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Timeline was after his second attempt, is it not?

No, you're right. It occurred after the second statement

 

[Dddrees]

No, you're right. It occurred after the second statement

Thanks, I thought so. So that statement from her may very well more reflect Trump denouncing specifically the NEO Nazis and WS. Good chance it wan't because of his first statement where he denounced party's from both sides.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I still don't understand (aside from the prevailing standard leftist flagrant dishonesty) how there is anything wrong with denouncing C:\THUGS\*.* rather than picking sides in a fight between two groups of whom the core participants are equally bad.

 

[Dddrees]

I still don't understand (aside from the prevailing standard leftist flagrant dishonesty) how there is anything wrong with denouncing C:\THUGS\*.* rather than picking sides in a fight between two groups of whom the core participants are equally bad.

I'll give.it another go.

Blacks

For one thing it helps to understand the entire history of slavery and the entire struggle from there to here. I think your well aware that the Emancipation Proclimation and the end of the Civil War did not resolve the issue. Blacks were still not free because blacks were still not equal. if I remember correctly although they got the right to vote shortly afterwards they faced numerous years if not almost a century of hangings, discrimination, Jim Crow laws and segregation. In fact shortly after the Civil War the faced years of retaliation and hangings. The KKK was born shortly after the Civil War and General Nathan Bedford Forest may have actually have been the first Imperial Wizard of the KKK. Discrimination in the a south may have been bad but they also faced discremination in the north as well with inequality of pay. Anyway they faced years of inequality and it wasn't until the Civil Rights Act in the early 60's that discrimination was outlawed. But the 60's were hardly the best of times and even after the Civil Rights Act was signed the faced many more years of discrimination. Heck not until recently you still had racial profiling and stop and frisk. Many of which statistically have proven to yield nothing more than more racial divide, inequality and yet they don't prevent crime.

NEO Nazis

One of the most despicable racisist organizations that I and most people who remember WWII can think of. Responsible for the death of over 6 millions of Jews. There are a vast number of people who have relatives who were killed by this group of low life's.

WS

Responsible for numerous hangings or linchings, bombings, and terrorizing of blacks.


Anti Protesters

Responsible for protesting the beliefs and acts of Neo Nazis and WS.



Now forget or don't forget the violent activity of the Anti Protestors of which some actually did not show up for or did not conduct any violence.


Now which group or groups do you think the President should condemn? Those that have the longest history of nothing but repugnant and deadly violence, mass gassing, torture, linching, hangings, murder, and bombings or a group of Anti Protestors of which a few may have punched or kicked someone? Oh, did I forget to mention the Neo Nazi and the car?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I'm not sure that's really an apt comparison DDdrees. There really weren't a whole lot of black people involved in the fighting that I saw. The fighting seemed confined to WN groups, and various versions of the Antifa group. It's fair to condemn the combatants on both sides, but it would also be fair to point out the racial hatred as being the catalyst of why this all unfolded the way it did, and condemn that thinking as being unAmerican, and divisive.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Trump says he's considering pardoning Joe Arpaio. Given the prejudiced tactics (of which he was convicted) he used to round up illegal immigrants, and coming off the heels of Charlottesville, there's no away that act (if he does it) wouldn't be seen a being made to placate the racist members of his base. I'm sure he knows this. The announcement was made for a reason.

 

[Birds Away]

I'm not sure that's really an apt comparison DDdrees. There really weren't a whole lot of black people involved in the fighting that I saw. The fighting seemed confined to WN groups, and various versions of the Antifa group. It's fair to condemn the combatants on both sides, but it would also be fair to point out the racial hatred as being the catalyst of why this all unfolded the way it did, and condemn that thinking as being unAmerican, and divisive.

A couple of points; Despite what the MSM would have you believe not all people on the right are racist. Not even all of the people on the right in Charlottesville were racist. But in saying this I am not trying to deflect or deny how outrageous and despicable the truly racist groups involved were and are.

I believe in a true meritocracy. I served in the USN for 26 years. That is as close to a true meritocracy as I have seen. In my personal experience we truly didn't care what anyone looked like or where they came from. If you stepped up and did your part you were part of the team. If you didn't then, it also didn't matter what you looked like or where you came from, you would pay the price. Everyone got second chances, at least those that demonstrated a willingness to try to improve. Was it perfect? Absolutely not. But it was certainly a concerted effort by the leadership to embody our own stated principles.

The racism and hatred exhibited this past weekend is un-American in that it goes against our stated principles. However, if we are truthful with ourselves, there are few things more American than racial divide. It's been going on for centuries here and it isn't going to be completely solved in decades. It will take a concerted effort and great leadership by all parties involved to put this behind us. That means leaders of every ilk who are willing to buy into it not just see what they can get out of it.
The other albatross around our necks is greed. But this is shared by the rest of humanity and will never be eradicated until the final days. But I believe that greed and a quest for power plays a very central role in keeping this issue on the front burner.
True racism can only be bred in ignorance. The light of true knowledge wipes it away.

 

[2A_Tom]

Kut, It is unAmerican to condemn free speech. I hate their message. I was taught that there is nothing that can be said that can justify a violent action.

Their words should just be ignored just like you would a child that is throwing a temper tantrum.

Do you really believe that the counter protesters didn't expect violence.

I did not watch a single Utube, stream, newa report of this situation, was it not for this thread I would not even know aboyt it.

Ignore them until they break the law and then arrest, try and punish them.

Had law inforcement been allowed to control these mobs there would most likely been a lot less to talk about.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut, It is unAmerican to condemn free speech. I hate their message. I was taught that there is nothing that can be said that can justify a violent action.

Their words should just be ignored just like you would a child that is throwing a temper tantrum.

Do you really believe that the counter protesters didn't expect violence.

I did not watch a single Utube, stream, newa report of this situation, was it not for this thread I would not even know aboyt it.

Ignore them until they break the law and then arrest, try and punish them.

Had law inforcement been allowed to control these mobs there would most likely been a lot less to talk about.

No BF, it is not unAmerican to condemn free speech. It is unAmerican to prevent it. I'm sure if you think about it, you will agree.

 

[jamil]

I'll give.it another go.

Blacks

For one thing it helps to understand the entire history of slavery and the entire struggle from there to here. I think your well aware that the Emancipation Proclimation and the end of the Civil War did not resolve the issue. Blacks were still not free because blacks were still not equal. if I remember correctly although they got the right to vote shortly afterwards they faced numerous years if not almost a century of hangings, discrimination, Jim Crow laws and segregation. In fact shortly after the Civil War the faced years of retaliation and hangings. The KKK was born shortly after the Civil War and General Nathan Bedford Forest may have actually have been the first Imperial Wizard of the KKK. Discrimination in the a south may have been bad but they also faced discremination in the north as well with inequality of pay. Anyway they faced years of inequality and it wasn't until the Civil Rights Act in the early 60's that discrimination was outlawed. But the 60's were hardly the best of times and even after the Civil Rights Act was signed the faced many more years of discrimination. Heck not until recently you still had racial profiling and stop and frisk. Many of which statistically have proven to yield nothing more than more racial divide, inequality and yet they don't prevent crime.

NEO Nazis

One of the most despicable racisist organizations that I and most people who remember WWII can think of. Responsible for the death of over 6 millions of Jews. There are a vast number of people who have relatives who were killed by this group of low life's.

WS

Responsible for numerous hangings or linchings, bombings, and terrorizing of blacks.


Anti Protesters

Responsible for protesting the beliefs and acts of Neo Nazis and WS.



Now forget or don't forget the violent activity of the Anti Protestors of which some actually did not show up for or did not conduct any violence.


Now which group or groups do you think the President should condemn? Those that have the longest history of nothing but repugnant and deadly violence, mass gassing, torture, linching, hangings, murder, and bombings or a group of Anti Protestors of which a few may have punched or kicked someone? Oh, did I forget to mention the Neo Nazi and the car?

Not all the wrong thinking UTR people were violent. Not all the anti-protesters were violent. Some of the wrong thinking UTR protesters were violent. Some of the anti-protesters were violent. Black history is irrelevant in this case. The violent acts are relevent. The reason on both sides is hate. Both sides who were hatefully violent are equally condemnable. To omit one side because you think they are more justified for being hatefully violent is nothing more than tribal virtue signaling.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not all the wrong thinking UTR people were violent. Not all the anti-protesters were violent. Some of the wrong thinking UTR protesters were violent. Some of the anti-protesters were violent. Black history is irrelevant in this case. The violent acts are relevent. The reason on both sides is hate. Both sides who were hatefully violent are equally condemnable. To omit one side because you think they are more justified for being hatefully violent is nothing more than tribal virtue signaling.

I had this conversation with someone the other day... there is a caveat though. One side was rationally hateful and the other irrationally hateful, but when it descended in to violence both were irrationally wrong.

 

[jamil]

Trump says he's considering pardoning Joe Arpaio. Given the prejudiced tactics (of which he was convicted) he used to round up illegal immigrants, and coming off the heels of Charlottesville, there's no away that act (if he does it) wouldn't be seen a being made to placate the racist members of his base. I'm sure he knows this. The announcement was made for a reason.

If it's fair to point out the racial hatred on one side, it's also fair to point out the class hatred on the other. ANTIFA are first and foremost violently rabid marxists who oppose free speech. They are every bit as morally repugnant to me as white supremacists. They're both two sides of the same violently hateful coin.

 

[Birds Away]

If it's fair to point out the racial hatred on one side, it's also fair to point out the class hatred on the other. ANTIFA are first and foremost violently rabid marxists who oppose free speech. They are every bit as morally repugnant to me as white supremacists. They're both two sides of the same violently hateful coin.

In liberal speak that means you are condoning the racist throng in Charlottesville.

 

[jamil]

I had this conversation with someone the other day... there is a caveat though. One side was rationally hateful and the other irrationally hateful, but when it descended in to violence both were irrationally wrong.

Which side was rationally hateful? I did not see any evidence of rational hatred in any of the violence I saw streamed. I just saw two sides who hate each other for ideological reasons, clash violently.

You mentioned you didn't see a lot of black people involved in the violence. I didn't either. I did see on one stream a group from UTR walk into a black neighborhood, which I think could have gotten rationally violent. I can see residents wanting to protect their neighborhood. But they're not the ones who threw stones. It was white ANTIFA thugs. Some of the UTR people were armed. I got the feeling ANTIFA was trying to goad them into violence. Like shoot into the crowd of black people.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If it's fair to point out the racial hatred on one side, it's also fair to point out the class hatred on the other. ANTIFA are first and foremost violently rabid marxists who oppose free speech. They are every bit as morally repugnant to me as white supremacists. They're both two sides of the same violently hateful coin.

Was that the post you meant to quote?