Donald J. Trump. Messiah? Poopiehead? Discuss...

[BugI02]

So, by that logic, moderate and apolitical muslims shouldn't denounce violent extremism, since there are already thousands of existing critical voices, and it would only add to the chorus of Islamophobes.

It does 't make much sense if you substitute any other person or group for the one you want to prop up. People need to be held accountable for their actions, not least by their own supporters.

Giving Trump a pass where you would hold another's feet to the fire is hypocrisy. I voted for Obama, but have been vocal with my criticism since he took office. I expect the same, or better, from the people that voted our current buffoon into office.

I gave you my viewpoint as a Trump supporter. If we wish to plumb the depths of Reductio ad Absurdum, then every Obama supporter should have joined the chorus of criticism coming largely from the right - after all he was the person they wanted to 'prop up' as was Hillary after he was no longer eligible. Could it be that this didn't happen because those on the left liked and approved of what they were accomplishing/trying to accomplish? Voila!

You failed to address the concept of counting coup. WHY is it so important to folks like you that I add my voice to the chorus? "At this point, what difference would it make?" Does not that desire for lock-step right think smell of the very cult-like behavior you wish to ascribe to the opposite 'camp'

Trump may be the proverbial 'bull in the china shop' (although you might review the Mythbusters test of this saying) but he has yet to enact or advocate very many policies that I disagree with. Given the numbers, business and investors seem to feel the same way. Where do you REALLY think the markets and jobs numbers would be if The Witch or (God forbid) The Marxist had been elected?

We get it; people think he's crude, he's somehow beneath the dignity with which they hold the office. The confusing thing is people act like they are somehow tainted by him even if they didn't support him. So much of the opposition seems to Trump the man rather than Trump's policies. I will judge him by the sum of his accomplishments, but so far I'd still take him over all but one or two of the other 15 - and those one or two likely would failed to inspire 'fierce loyalty' (nod to jamil) and would have had little or no bedrock base and would have withered in the massed fire of the left leaning media

No one else could have won the rigged fight that was the election of 2016. We accepted the man was flawed a long time ago. We're fine with it

*No Russians were involved in the formulation or phrasing of these ideas

 

[jamil]

Others answering for the OP isn't the same as the OP answering for himself. Let's see what he's got to say,

This appears to be good advice. My work is done here.

 

[churchmouse]

Discussing my solution would get us both banned from INGO permanently.

I think the entirety of the federal government needs a "reboot", to be polite.

Reboot is a good choice of words for this.
I agree in your base thinking and yes, discussing this would get us all banned me included.

 

[jamil]

I am not a cult follower, but I feel that you (corporate) are cult detractors.

I think I should address this since I'm the one who brought in the concept of cult-like following.

First, I do not believe that all of what I would say comprise the ardent Trump supporters are cult-like in their support. I mean, some people clearly are pretty lock-step in support of things Trump says he wants to do. And that's fine. Those things are subjective. People get to like or dislike policies according to their own world views.

I'm referring to a subset of ardent Trump supporters who have an almost faith-like belief that cannot see all the truth that is in front of them. They believe things that are clearly, objectively false. They fail to see the things that are clearly, objectively true. I don't see you all as that type. You've said before that you recognize the stuff Trump does that gets in his own way. And it seems to me that for many of the pragmatic reasons I have for not regretting my vote for Trump, you have for continuing to support him regardless. That's fair.

When I say cult-like, I mean the people who express things like Trump is the best president there could be. They just seem to have an irrational belief in him that transcends the knowable facts. And that's just clearly a mesmerized sort of thought process that gets people to that place. They have to ignore a lot of negative things to see only the positive things which could allow them to believe such things.

I'm glad we don't have a President Hillary. That doesn't mean I don't recognize when Trump does things I wish he wouldn't do. And those things should make rational people not have this blind faith in him, and this blind belief that he's just so far beyond everyone in positive attributes. I don't think I've ever seen you express anything close to that. But there are some folks on INGO who seem to have drank that koolaid. I'm not going to rule out that those people say that stuff because they're trolling people like Dddrees and other Trump haters.

 

[jamil]

Spot on.

Sure looks that way to me.

Okay. Maybe my work isn't done.

 

[PaulF]

I gave you my viewpoint as a Trump supporter. If we wish to plumb the depths of Reductio ad Absurdum, then every Obama supporter should have joined the chorus of criticism coming largely from the right - after all he was the person they wanted to 'prop up' as was Hillary after he was no longer eligible. Could it be that this didn't happen because those on the left liked and approved of what they were accomplishing/trying to accomplish? Voila!

You failed to address the concept of counting coup. WHY is it so important to folks like you that I add my voice to the chorus? "At this point, what difference would it make?" Does not that desire for lock-step right think smell of the very cult-like behavior you wish to ascribe to the opposite 'camp'

Trump may be the proverbial 'bull in the china shop' (although you might review the Mythbusters test of this saying) but he has yet to enact or advocate very many policies that I disagree with. Given the numbers, business and investors seem to feel the same way. Where do you REALLY think the markets and jobs numbers would be if The Witch or (God forbid) The Marxist had been elected?

We get it; people think he's crude, he's somehow beneath the dignity with which they hold the office. The confusing thing is people act like they are somehow tainted by him even if they didn't support him. So much of the opposition seems to Trump the man rather than Trump's policies. I will judge him by the sum of his accomplishments, but so far I'd still take him over all but one or two of the other 15 - and those one or two likely would failed to inspire 'fierce loyalty' (nod to jamil) and would have had little or no bedrock base and would have withered in the massed fire of the left leaning media

No one else could have won the rigged fight that was the election of 2016. We accepted the man was flawed a long time ago. We're fine with it

*No Russians were involved in the formulation or phrasing of these ideas

I have never heard the phrase "counting coup" before you posted it. I didn't address it because I am unfamiliar with the concept.

It is important that his supporters identify and recognize where he fails as a conservative and a president. Otherwise, they give off the impression that they support all of his abhorrent behaviors. It's important because the same people that demanded better from Obama are seemingly willing to accept anything from Trump. That is hypocrisy, and it is not befitting the "side" that claims to value small, transparent goverment.

I am not a party loyalist. I don't buy into the idea that anyone from "our" party is necessarily better than anyone from "their" party, simply due to party affiliation.

I am not comfortable with his character flaws and he course he has plotted this far. I view the "sum of his accomplishments" as getting elected and not ****ing up the Gorsich nomination the way he tanked Obamacare repeal. Otherwise he hasn't accomplished anything that cannot be undone with the stoke of a pen. More, I don't agree with the content of most of his executive actions. I think his immigration policy is short-sighted and juvenile. I think his views on regulation are mostly based on self-interest.

I comment the way I do because I want more than "good for me, but not for thee", which pretty much sums up the current Rebuplican stance on authoritarian rule.

 

[BugI02]

Right doesn't criticize Trump. Hypocrisy!

Left doesn't criticize Obama, Hillary, Bernie. Tu quoque! It is a fallacy to expect them to do so!

Got it

 

[PaulF]

Right doesn't criticize Trump. Hypocrisy!

Left doesn't criticize Obama, Hillary, Bernie. Tu quoque! It is a fallacy to expect them to do so!

Got it

What are you going on about?

I spent seven years criticizing Obama, and I was a constant and vocal critic of HRC. I had a real problem with the Cult of Personality that developed around Obama. I do not support idol worship.

We won't get better from our elected officials unless the people who support them demand it. Republicans spent 8years demanding "better" from Obama, but are perfectly happy with whatever they get from Trump?

I have a problem with that.

 

[KLB]

Right doesn't criticize Trump. Hypocrisy!

Left doesn't criticize Obama, Hillary, Bernie. Tu quoque! It is a fallacy to expect them to do so!

Got it

No. It is: Trump supporter criticized left for not criticizing Obama. Trump supporter doesn't criticize Trump. That is hypocrisy.

 

[2A_Tom]

I think I should address this since I'm the one who brought in the concept of cult-like following.

First, I do not believe that all of what I would say comprise the ardent Trump supporters are cult-like in their support. I mean, some people clearly are pretty lock-step in support of things Trump says he wants to do. And that's fine. Those things are subjective. People get to like or dislike policies according to their own world views.

(1) I'm referring to a subset of ardent Trump supporters who have an almost faith-like belief that cannot see all the truth that is in front of them. They believe things that are clearly, objectively false. They fail to see the things that are clearly, objectively true. I don't see you all as that type. You've said before that you recognize the stuff Trump does that gets in his own way. And it seems to me that for many of the pragmatic reasons I have for not regretting my vote for Trump, you have for continuing to support him regardless. That's fair.

When I say cult-like, (2) I mean the people who express things like Trump is the best president there could be. They just seem to have an irrational belief in him that transcends the knowable facts. And that's just clearly a mesmerized sort of thought process that gets people to that place. They have to ignore a lot of negative things to see only the positive things which could allow them to believe such things.

I'm glad we don't have a President Hillary. That doesn't mean I don't recognize when Trump does things I wish he wouldn't do. And those things should make rational people not have this blind faith in him, and this blind belief that he's just so far beyond everyone in positive attributes. I don't think I've ever seen you express anything close to that. But there are some folks on INGO who seem to have drank that koolaid. (3) I'm not going to rule out that those people say that stuff because they're trolling people like Dddrees and other Trump haters.

1. Still I never met a single one. and am not aware of any INGOer hwo fits that bill.
2. Ditto.
3. The only member that I might put in this category would be Inducky, I personally would not call him a troll, he possibly actually believes he can con vert DD.
4. Well, actually I did make a statement (tongue in cheek, and in exasperation) in Kut's thread that I gave Trump a 100% rating.

I have never heard the phrase "counting coup" before you posted it. I didn't address it because I am unfamiliar with the concept.

It is important that his supporters identify and recognize where he fails as a conservative and a president. Otherwise, they give off the impression that they support all of his abhorrent behaviors. It's important because (1) the same people that demanded better from Obama are seemingly willing to accept anything from Trump. That is hypocrisy, and it is not befitting the "side" that claims to value small, transparent goverment.

I am not a party loyalist. I don't buy into the idea that anyone from "our" party is necessarily better than anyone from "their" party, simply due to party affiliation.

I am not comfortable with his character flaws and he course he has plotted this far. I view the "sum of his accomplishments" as getting elected and not ****ing up the Gorsich nomination (2) the way he tanked Obamacare repeal. Otherwise (3) he hasn't accomplished anything that cannot be undone with the stoke of a pen. More, I don't agree with the content of most of the content of his executive actions. (4) I think his immigration policy is short-sighted and juvenile. (5)I think his views on regulation are mostly based on self-interest.

I comment the way I do because I want more than "good for me, but not for thee", which pretty much sums up the current Rebuplican stance on authoritarian rule.

1. Obama was outwardly anti American I do not see any hypocracy in supporting Trump.
2. You believe it was his fault that Obamacare was not repealed and replaced and that is a good thing?
3. It is a good thing that Obama's Execuitive Orders have been repealed by Trumps pen. Let's urge congerss to make them permenent. Oh that sounds like a solution. Detractors are not looking for solutions.
4. That is an opinion.
5. Well, Overregulation only hurts Trump, that is a fact I didn't realize until you informed me.
6. Iiii, Iiii, I, I. We thought that was Obama's theme song.

 

[indiucky]

Reboot is a good choice of words for this.
I agree in your base thinking and yes, discussing this would get us all banned me included.

You say you want a reboot???? Well you know......We're all doing what we can....

But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao...You're never going to make it with anyone any how..

But you know it's gonna be...Alright.....

 

[Dddrees]

You say you want a reboot???? Well you know......We're all doing what we can....

But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao...You're never going to make it with anyone any how..

But you know it's gonna be...Alright.....

My favorite group, just too bad your for the wrong man.

 

[Kutnupe14]

1. Obama was outwardly anti American I do not see any hypocracy in supporting Trump.
2. You believe it was his fault that Obamacare was not repealed and replaced and that is a good thing?
3. It is a good thing that Obama's Execuitive Orders have been repealed by Trumps pen. Let's urge congerss to make them permenent. Oh that sounds like a solution. Detractors are not looking for solutions.
4. That is an opinion.
5. Well, Overregulation only hurts Trump, that is a fact I didn't realize until you informed me.
6. Iiii, Iiii, I, I. We thought that was Obama's theme song.

1. Overtly, I think is the word you're looking for, in comparison to how "outwardly" could be defined, and applied to the subject. I will challenge how you think Obama was anti-American, and ask what is the standard in which one could be considered a real American.
2. Trump undermined the repeal, by flip flopping between a straight repeal to a repeal and replace. He never put any rubber to the road in pushing his agenda. He just expected it to happen. For Republican congressmen, it was a difficult position to be put in.
3. Obama has some pretty significant things that can't be signed away and done with. Trump has none.
4. Yes, it is an opinion, but I share that opinion with Jamil.
5. There's lots of overregulation, find me something that he has deregulated, that doesn't affect Trump or his family. For instance Airlines would love to see some deregulation 25% of all airline tickets go to the gov. Trump hasn't touched that one.... however, at one time Trump had an airline. If it had been successful, you'd have a hard time convincing me that he wouldn't tried to deregulate the industry further, now.
6. Actually, I think his theme was "Carwash."

 

[printcraft]

...... I will challenge how you think Obama was anti-American,.....

Barack Obama's Top 10 Apologies: How the President Has Humiliated a Superpower | The Heritage Foundation

...
3. Obama has some pretty significant things that can't be signed away and done with. Trump has none.

True, Setting back race relations 50 years is no small accomplishment.

 

[2A_Tom]

1. Apology tour, All people are exceptional American Exceptionalism has nothing to do with individuals, but individual liberty. That is all I have off the top of my head but I'm sure I could come up with more.
2. Mitch McConnel said he tried to go too fast too soon. The brash and filthy mouthed Trump tweeted "You had 7 years" All they had to do was propose the bill that passed both houses and Obama repealed.
3. Beside Obama care? He was in office for 8 years. Trump has been in offise what? 6 months?
4. That is your privilege. (Oh, wait, did I just accuse a black guy of privilege?) Sorry.
5. Well, I do not know what is on his agenda, so I'll just wait and see.
6. [video=youtube;3v8I5egzoMo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ccjTFsEaKMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v8I5egzoMo[/video]

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

My favorite group, just too bad your for the wrong man.

Never was a fan, but I am usually happy when I'm holding a warm gun.

 

[Dddrees]

Never was a fan, but I am usually happy when I'm holding a warm gun.

Well if nothing else your familiar with a few songs from at least one album.

 

[KJQ6945]

Here is what I said.

The masses see the man as the liberal media chooses to portray them.

The liberal media picks the republican candidate in the primary that they think they can beat in the general. They chose McCain, they chose Romney, and they chose Trump. I don't know a single conservative that says, "Trump was my guy", from the beginning. He won the primary, because he got ALL the press. We had 16 people running for the Republican nomination. Who was put on the tv and the front page every day? It wasn't Ted Cruz. Most of America couldn't pick Ted Cruz out of a lineup. Could you, INGO?

Honestly, the crying, the gnashing of teeth by the left, and our own INGO leftist calling him an idiot and a habitual liar in EVERY post, puts a giant smile on my face. Every insult that they hurl at this man, they are choking on there own stupidity and arrogance.

Here is what you got out of it.

This appears to be the common thought among most on the right. You assume those that don't like Trump are on the left, you also assume the reason we don't like him only because of what the media programs us too.

So to this I could easily come back and say you only like Trump because of Fox and because of Breitbart.

Well your wrong, but that's Ok if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night you keep thinking that way.


But no, I don't like Trump because of everything Trump stands for and the things Trump does.


But like I said if that makes it easier for you and your reality you keep thinking that way.

And more more reading comprehension failure.

Ok and that's your take, but that's not remotely what the OP said. Sounds like he thinks people are stupid for thinking he's a liar.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Well if nothing else your familiar with a few songs from at least one album.

No, just those two.

 

[KJQ6945]

I contend that the left wing media picked Trump in the primary because they felt that he would be the easiest for Hillary to defeat. I also believe that they did the same thing in 2008, and 2012.

It was stated up thread that the party elite picked McCain and Romney. While I don't disagree, I still contend that the media had the ultimate say. 2016, the party had their hopes and money behind Bush.

The media got their way 2 out of three times. The Republican party, well they are 0 for 3.

The media likes to build up the one that they see as easiest to tear down. All the praise they can heap upon them in the primary, while running hit pieces against the competition. As soon as the primary is decided, hit pieces for the "R", fluff stories for the "D". It's been a very successful strategy, until now. Trump actually won. It has made them loose their collective minds, and I love it.

I dont love Trump, out of the 16 in the primary, he was near the bottom, in my book. He is the President, and he is here, courtesy of the left.