Donald J. Trump. Messiah? Poopiehead? Discuss...

[KLB]

The masses see the man as the liberal media chooses to portray them.

The liberal media picks the republican candidate in the primary that they think they can beat in the general. They chose McCain, they chose Romney, and they chose Trump. I don't know a single conservative that says, "Trump was my guy", from the beginning. He won the primary, because he got ALL the press. We had 16 people running for the Republican nomination. Who was put on the tv and the front page every day? It wasn't Ted Cruz. Most of America couldn't pick Ted Cruz out of a lineup. Could you, INGO?

Honestly, the crying, the gnashing of teeth by the left, and our own INGO leftist calling him an idiot and a habitual liar in EVERY post, puts a giant smile on my face. Every insult that they hurl at this man, they are choking on there own stupidity and arrogance.

McCain and Romney were picked by the party elite, not by the liberal media.

 

[PaulF]

That's an intriguing synthesis of a complex calculation, jamil. I would add that the more Trump has to wade through hostile fire from all quarters, even other 'Republicans', the less room supporters such as myself feel to criticize his actions without feeling like we've joined the howling mob. Please consider that whenever you muse upon why Trump's supporters are so reluctant to criticize him; any possible criticism we might have has been made, distorted and then amplified a thousand-fold. We don't feel the need to join the chorus, and frankly the desire of some to have us do so seems more like counting coup than honest debate

So, by that logic, moderate and apolitical muslims shouldn't denounce violent extremism, since there are already thousands of existing critical voices, and it would only add to the chorus of Islamophobes.

It does 't make much sense if you substitute any other person or group for the one you want to prop up. People need to be held accountable for their actions, not least by their own supporters.

Giving Trump a pass where you would hold another's feet to the fire is hypocrisy. I voted for Obama, but have been vocal with my criticism since he took office. I expect the same, or better, from the people that voted our current buffoon into office.

 

[2A_Tom]

OK Paul, since DD won't answer the question, what do you have to offer? What is your solution to "your percieved" problem.

Why do I not denounce Trump? (who you have you have portrayed as morally equivelent with radical islamic terrorists)

• He is trying to keep his promises inspite of opposition from Media, Democrats, RINO's, Never Trumpers &t.
• He has more Intestinal Fortitude than you or me. (tell me you could endure an everlasting anal inspection)
• He is the President.
• He is my President.
• I want him to succeed in keeping his promises.
• He is not morally equivilent to terrorists. (your implication not my inference) I believe you are smarter than that. Even though in an earlier post I inferred a disdain for the average INGOers intelligence. In my experience those who consider themaslves better than others, usually are not worth my time.
• My list goes on and on, and your,DD's and Kuts resistance only makes me more resolute.
• I am not a cult follower, but I feel that you (corporate) are cult detractors.
• You offer NO valid solution for "your supposed" problem.

 

[jamil]

LOL

How could I possibly pass up on your last paragraph. How exactly, I mean, well, how is anybody who recognizes that Trump is a habitual liar stupid? Please you just have to explain this one.

Because if he's doing what the liberal left hates then he's doing what we LOVE and the right thing for America.

C'mon TT. You know that didn't answer the question that was asked. I think what you said is a fair answer to what is distinct about both sides but it doesn't explain why that makes the other side from you stupid.

 

[PaulF]

OK Paul, since DD won't answer the question, what do you have to offer? What is your solution to "your percieved" problem.

Why do I not denounce Trump? (who you have you have portrayed as morally equivelent with radical islamic terrorists)

Discussing my solution would get us both banned from INGO permanently.

I think the entirety of the federal government needs a "reboot", to be polite.

 

[jamil]

Now there's a great reason. If he hating on the liberal left no matter if it makes no sense and it's not good for America but because it's hating on the left it's good. Gotta Luv Trump Logic. LOL

That's a facile representation of what they're saying. I'd like to know if you represented them that way because you're just trying to strawman them to make your tribe look stronger, or if you actually don't understand their position, so you're only seeing it within your own framework. It matters to me because I'd like to know what you're looking for here. You want to just punch Nazis or are you actually trying to figure out what's true? There's a hell of a lot in between those two things.

But if you're looking for what's true and what's false about both sides, it's important to understand the strongest argument the other side has. If you don't, then you're only arguing against your own imagination.

 

[jamil]

LOL

How could I possibly pass up on your last paragraph. How exactly, I mean, well, how is anybody who recognizes that Trump is a habitual liar stupid? Please you just have to explain this one.

Ok and that's your take, but that's not remotely what the OP said. Sounds like he thinks people are stupid for thinking he's a liar.

Can you identify the thing that the OP is saying is stupid? And is there a difference between the thing you identify and the thing the OP meant?

 

[2A_Tom]

Discussing my solution would get us both banned from INGO permanently.

I think the entirety of the federal government needs a "reboot", to be polite.

First, please go back and read my complete quote. I hit post instead of go advanced.

Second, I would not be banned, because I would not discuss assination, civil war or whatever else your solution may be. Pardon my inference, it may be wrong.

 

[PaulF]

• He is not morally equivilent to terrorists. (your implication not my inference) I believe you are smarter than that. Even though in an earlier post I inferred a disdain for the average INGOers intelligence. In my experience those who consider themaslves better than others, usually are not worth my time
• You offer NO valid solution for "your supposed" problem.

I compared moderate conservatives to moderate muslims, I am referring to their behavior in my example. I am not comparing Tump's behavior with that of ISIS, but rather trying to illustrate that when good people give bad behavior a pass it effects their own credibility in the broader discussion.

See my other post for thoughts on a "solution".

 

[Dddrees]

Can you identify the thing that the OP is saying is stupid? And is there a difference between the thing you identify and the thing the OP meant?

Others answering for the OP isn't the same as the OP answering for himself. Let's see what he's got to say,

 

[BugI02]

Final Obama travel tab: $100 million

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...176811&usg=AFQjCNFDbWvYQMrq8609FcDAFjAjyYX97A

Here ya go .....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...t.com/&usg=AFQjCNH5omnOguGrjolh-b5-X9h7mk4-Rw

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6.html&usg=AFQjCNHmFLH6rKKhemLxdJsk9NbWgzwd7w

Ask, and ye SHALL RECIEVE .....

I didn't check before posting .....

From the first two links: Obama

The price does not include all expenses and many of the unknowns are expensive, including those for communications, security and the prepositioning of jets, limos and even ships for security when the Obama's vacationed in Hawaii and Martha's Vineyard, Mass.

So just what can be verified by prying the information loose with FOIA requests

Trump

Since taking office, Trump has spent seven weekends at Mar-a-Lago, his Florida vacation home, and it’s believed that each trip, which includes an extensive security detail, costs taxpayers around $3 million.

One is hard numbers and does not include many of the most expensive costs (security) while the other is an 'estimate' that throws in what can only WAG for security costs. Shades of 'Its costing $1million per day for Trump to stay in NYC'
I think the hotel is free (to Trump and family) isn't it? No 'Queen of Sheba' suite required, no stays at hotels who's price was deemed unseemly for even the Vice President
I'll wait for the apples to apples comparison.

 

[2A_Tom]

Can you identify the thing that the OP is saying is stupid? And is there a difference between the thing you identify and the thing the OP meant?

You're wasting your time. All he has is Trump is a stupid poopyhead. He has only replied to one question with a non answer, as i recall.

 

[Dddrees]

That's a facile representation of what they're saying. I'd like to know if you represented them that way because you're just trying to strawman them to make your tribe look stronger, or if you actually don't understand their position, so you're only seeing it within your own framework. It matters to me because I'd like to know what you're looking for here. You want to just punch Nazis or are you actually trying to figure out what's true? There's a hell of a lot in between those two things.

But if you're looking for what's true and what's false about both sides, it's important to understand the strongest argument the other side has. If you don't, then you're only arguing against your own imagination.

Sure sounds to me like what he's saying. If not I'm sure he can clarify it.

 

[BugI02]

This appears to be the common thought among most on the right. You assume those that don't like Trump are on the left, you also assume the reason we don't like him only because of what the media programs us too.

So to this I could easily come back and say you only like Trump because of Fox and because of Breitbart.

Well your wrong, but that's Ok if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night you keep thinking that way.


But no, I don't like Trump because of everything Trump stands for and the things Trump does.

[So could we then infer that you liked Obama and Hillary for everything they have done and stand for?]

But like I said if that makes it easier for you and your reality you keep thinking that way.

That would explain a lot

 

[BugI02]

Now there's a great reason. If he hating on the liberal left no matter if it makes no sense and it's not good for America but because it's hating on the left it's good. Gotta Luv Trump Logic. LOL

Well, you know we use up a lot of energy with all the 'bitter clinging'

 

[Dddrees]

That would explain a lot

Sure you can infer all you want. I mean that is if that's what makes you happy. Why don't you ask and then I'll tell you?

 

[Dddrees]

Well, you know we use up a lot of energy with all the 'bitter clinging'

Spot on.

Sure looks that way to me.

 

[Leadeye]

The big variable in all of this is the money, the dc machine and various others run on it. When you start out saying that you want to reduce the power of the machines, expect to run into a lot of resistance from both the machine itself and the people who pay it to get rules and legislation that favors them. It's a huge well greased system with big law/lobby firms at the top and the President has found I'm sure to his dismay that he can't govern without some people who are a part of the machine. Seems like everywhere you look these days there's some alumnus of Goldman Sachs running some part of the government. Have to wonder which dc law/lobby firm represents them.

Always follow the money

 

[Dddrees]

The big variable in all of this is the money, the dc machine and various others run on it. When you start out saying that you want to reduce the power of the machines, expect to run into a lot of resistance from both the machine itself and the people who pay it to get rules and legislation that favors them. It's a huge well greased system with big law/lobby firms at the top and the President has found I'm sure to his dismay that he can't govern without some people who are a part of the machine. Seems like everywhere you look these days there's some alumnus of Goldman Sachs running some part of the government. Have to wonder which dc law/lobby firm represents them.

Always follow the money

But Trump has Big Money well represented in his Administration. So............

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

The big variable in all of this is the money, the dc machine and various others run on it. When you start out saying that you want to reduce the power of the machines, expect to run into a lot of resistance from both the machine itself and the people who pay it to get rules and legislation that favors them. It's a huge well greased system with big law/lobby firms at the top and the President has found I'm sure to his dismay that he can't govern without some people who are a part of the machine. Seems like everywhere you look these days there's some alumnus of Goldman Sachs running some part of the government. Have to wonder which dc law/lobby firm represents them.

Always follow the money

The first thing that comes to my mind when I read through these kinds of treads is that most of the posters know way more about this subject than I do. (Most, not all)

But I can't help but feel like one big difference in Washington is that, back in the day, a young Senator or Congressman got into the office to do the people's work and was pleasantly surprised to learn that he could squeeze in a little time to sop up some of that financial gravy for his own benefit, but today, the young Senator or Congressman gets into the office to get the gravy and is disappointed to learn that sometimes the people's work intrudes.