Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth – the Muslim World Is Overcome with Hate

[ajeandy]

I don't have anything in particular against anyone of ANY religious persuasion (or none, as it may be) HOWEVER, I'm not blind - nor will I pretend to be blind - to the stated intentions of a fairly large sect of the religion which has promised me and mine forced conversion, slavery or death. Since I have no way to tell WHICH of this sizable section of the world's population is bent toward that goal, I'm inclined - reasonable enough - to be wary of anyone who fits the profile. And, just as we didn't separate the Nazis from Germans when we bombed and shot our way through Europe to defeat them during WWII, unless Muslims do something visible and tangible to separate themselves from this "radical" sect, I don't know how else we're going to solve our problem but to separate "Muslims" from the rest of us. Not an ideal solution, but unless someone comes up with a better one, we may have to go with that one.

And I will say this. It may not be a great solution, to kill everyone who raises a hand against us; then to kill their families, burn their farms, kill their animals, and salt their farmland so that it won't produce for hundreds of years. But as the Romans showed the Carthaginians, it IS a solution.

Man I don't even know where to begin with this. The comparison to Germans is not valid seeing as they had a full fledged army....two people went on a shooting spree and now we need to kill all Muslims? FFS. How many Muslims in the usa have been raining violence and murder on us in the last thirty years?

ISIS does not mean all or even a majority of Muslims. ISIS has an army. US citizens that aren't harming anyone are not subject to be treated any different than you are treated....regardless of race, gender, or religion.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Since I'm a relatively uneducated person, can someone point me to an idiot american's guide to Islam? I find religious history to be fascinating.

is there maybe an annotated version of the Koran that might help to explain/interpret the passages?

Id like to get a better understanding of Islam as a whole- from its early history to more general explanation of the different sects.

Keeping in mind possible bias (you'll have to decide for yourself), here's an interesting look at Islam from someone who says he studied it.

A Rational Study of Radical Islam, by Dr. Bill Warner - YouTube

 

[7.62]

I'm curious how many people here actually, personally, know any Muslims?

Me too!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Man I don't even know where to begin with this. The comparison to Germans is not valid seeing as they had a full fledged army....two people went on a shooting spree and now we need to kill all Muslims? FFS. How many Muslims in the usa have been raining violence and murder on us in the last thirty years?

ISIS does not mean all or even a majority of Muslims. ISIS has an army. US citizens that aren't harming anyone are not subject to be treated any different than you are treated....regardless of race, gender, or religion.

Let me be the first to point out to you that in WWII we didn't restrict ourselves to attacking only military forces in either Germany OR Japan. And yes, we defeated a formed Army - as well as sundry civilians who attempted to protect their Homeland. That we don't face a "formed Army" in our current and recent past conflicts only contributes to the difficulty of winning.

If you will re-read what I wrote, you will notice I said "kill everyone who raises a hand against us . . ." instead of "kill them all and let Allah sort them out . . ." so, I recognize that not every Muslim is our enemy, nor did I say that.

However, if you ascribe (the generic "you" in this case) to the theory that "killing Muslims just radicalizes more of them" then where does that leave us? Do we simply respond to minimize casualties in an unending series of attacks on soft targets until we're too tired to respond anymore and just surrender our freedoms and culture? Or do we go on the offensive? And if we DO go on the offensive, just exactly HOW do we separate the sheep from the goats?

 

[KG1]

...I think that's a banana. It's a banana isn't it?

I almost went with lemon, but the convenient peel thing made me change my mind.

Yes it's a banana.

Ah progress. We got you two to agree on what a banana is.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Since I'm a relatively uneducated person, can someone point me to an idiot american's guide to Islam? I find religious history to be fascinating.

is there maybe an annotated version of the Koran that might help to explain/interpret the passages?

Id like to get a better understanding of Islam as a whole- from its early history to more general explanation of the different sects.

I would start with Karen Armstrong's book, A Brief history of Islam. Google her and I think you'll see why I recommend her. She is a great researcher, fluent in many languages, and not too close to the topic to have trouble being objective.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't mean to impose, but strictly speaking Jews and Christians do not worship the same God because the Jews deny the deity of Jesus Christ, one third of the Godhead. By the way, the Muslim denial of Christ's deity demonstrates that Islam and Christianity have totally distinct views of God. You can't have it both ways - they make mutually exclusive claims - logically, both cannot be correct.

If God is omnipotent and infinite, he can be different things to different people. He is not limited to our understanding.

 

[KG1]

If God is omnipotent and infinite, he can be different things to different people. He is not limited to our understanding.

You mean "God" can be whoever or whatever we want it to be?

 

[Jludo]

But Steve, using your logic, do jews worship the same god as us Christians do?

Don't they? They just not recognize his son?

 

[PaulKersey]

If God is omnipotent and infinite, he can be different things to different people. He is not limited to our understanding.

He certainly is not limited to our understanding, but He does not violate the rules of logic that only exist because He brought them into being. There are things God cannot do, such as make a square circle or create a married bachelor. God created the world with order and consistency. The logic He created dictates that either Christ is exactly who He claimed to be or He is not. To insist on some nebulous, malleable view of God's identity is inconsistent with His nature.

 

[Jludo]

I don't mean to impose, but strictly speaking Jews and Christians do not worship the same God because the Jews deny the deity of Jesus Christ, one third of the Godhead. By the way, the Muslim denial of Christ's deity demonstrates that Islam and Christianity have totally distinct views of God. You can't have it both ways - they make mutually exclusive claims - logically, both cannot be correct.

Does that put Unitarians out?

 

[Jludo]

He certainly is not limited to our understanding, but He does not violate the rules of logic that only exist because He brought them into being. There are things God cannot do, such as make a square circle or create a married bachelor. God created the world with order and consistency. The logic He created dictates that either Christ is exactly who He claimed to be or He is not. To insist on some nebulous, malleable view of God's identity is inconsistent with His nature.

He can make a pregnant virgin, turn water into wine etc. He can violate the rules of logic.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Ah progress. We got you two to agree on what a banana is.

See? Common ground.

 

[PaulKersey]

Does that put Unitarians out?

Yes. All roads do not lead home (John 14:6). Scripture speaks of a broad road and a narrow road, and most people seem to be on the former. Christ spoke of Hell more than He did about Heaven.

 

[KG1]

See? Common ground.

Gotta start somewhere.

 

[PaulKersey]

He can make a pregnant virgin, turn water into wine etc. He can violate the rules of logic.

Performing miracles is not a violation of logic when He is inherently a supernatural being and our very existence is
miraculous.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You mean "God" can be whoever or whatever we want it to be?

If he's omnipotent and infinite, doesn't he sort of have to be, but limiting himself to each of us based on our own understanding?

Even as limited as humans are, we offer different perspectives to different people. A toddler son understands us differently then a teen, and neither understands us in the same way as our co-workers. Who's right?

 

[7.62]

I read a lot of these threads that talk about Islam and I just stay out of them. They are generally filled with hate, and tons of misinformation quoted from anti-Islamic sites. A few people here have spoke up and have been open minded and supportive of Muslims as a whole. Thank you to those who have. Also, thank you BBI. You have my full respect after this thread. I want to throw in something on this subject.

A little bit about me:

I'm a husband, father, conservative, proud American, gun loving, what for it.....Muslim. I fly an American flag just as proud as anyone. I have donated thousands to wounded veterans and work with a NPO that supports our current and former servicemen/women that have be injured/killed at war (much like WWP). I have tons of friends and family that are Muslim as well. 3 family friends that are doctors (one Syrian, two Palaestinians) and save American lives everyday. One of my best friends (an Arab Muslim) is an engineer and works for the government making weapon systems that help destroy terrorist and defend lives of our soldiers. Someone asks how many Ingo members know Muslims personally. I'm curious of that as well. Where there is between 1.5 and 2 billion of a type of people then there are going to be bad people in any group. No doubt there are some real losers in my religion. I hate them for it and wish them a swift death for harming innocent people. But the majority are good people.

 

[Jludo]

Yes. All roads do not lead home (John 14:6). Scripture speaks of a broad road and a narrow road, and most people seem to be on the former. Christ spoke of Hell more than He did about Heaven.

Nothing motivates devotion like the looming prospect of eternal fire and brimstone.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

He can make a pregnant virgin, turn water into wine etc. He can violate the rules of logic.

God may do things in a way we can't understand (e.g. virgin birth, water-into-wine, etc.) but as Einstein said about the physics of the universe: "God doesn't cheat."