Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth – the Muslim World Is Overcome with Hate

[Jludo]

God may do things in a way we can't understand (e.g. virgin birth, water-into-wine, etc.) but as Einstein said about the physics of the universe: "God doesn't cheat."

Einstein also said "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this"
So you might take his words with a grain of salt.

 

[PaulKersey]

Nothing motivates devotion like the looming prospect of eternal fire and brimstone.

I am simply quoting the direct teachings and words of Christ to you. The cross and the Gospel are offensive and always have been, because they confront man and tell him he is not "ok" as he is. Christ claimed that He would rise from the dead, and indeed His
tomb is still empty. Had He not been raised from the dead, the Romans would have paraded His body through the streets and stopped Christianity before it started. They could not do this because He was gone. Therefore, I tend to take His words very seriously.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I read a lot of these threads that talk about Islam and I just stay out of them. They are generally filled with hate, and tons of misinformation quoted from anti-Islamic sites. A few people here have spoke up and have been open minded and supportive of Muslims as a whole. Thank you to those who have. Also, thank you BBI. You have my full respect after this thread. I want to throw in something on this subject.

A little bit about me:

I'm a husband, father, conservative, proud American, gun loving, what for it.....Muslim. I fly an American flag just as proud as anyone. I have donated thousands to wounded veterans and work with a NPO that supports our current and former servicemen/women that have be injured/killed at war (much like WWP). I have tons of friends and family that are Muslim as well. 3 family friends that are doctors (one Syrian, two Palaestinians) and save American lives everyday. One of my best friends (an Arab Muslim) is an engineer and works for the government making weapon systems that help destroy terrorist and defend lives of our soldiers. Someone asks how many Ingo members know Muslims personally. I'm curious of that as well. Where there is between 1.5 and 2 billion of a type of people then there are going to be bad people in any group. No doubt there are some real losers in my religion. I hate them for it and wish them a swift death for harming innocent people. But the majority are good people.

Don't care about your religion, particularly. Don't "hate" Muslims at all. But I do want to know, from your perspective, how we distinguish between yourself and your friends - and your co-religionists ( of a different sect, probably) which have vowed to kill us, enslave us, or convert us? Please believe me, we'd be having this conversation from my end if, in the New Testament, Saints Peter and Paul and the rest of the Apostles decided to expand the new Christ-ian sect by murdering, enslaving, or forcing conversion to THEIR religion. If, for example, the Roman Catholic Church - of which I am a member - was killing non-believers as a matter of policy today, I'd take issue with it and either find some other religion which was more compatible with the culture to which I belong.

I keep hearing the argument that the Wahabists and ISIS and Al-Qaeda and such "don't represent Islam", but apparently they represent about 25% of Islam, and that's not a minor problem.

 

[Jludo]

Don't care about your religion, particularly. Don't "hate" Muslims at all. But I do want to know, from your perspective, how we distinguish between yourself and your friends - and your co-religionists ( of a different sect, probably) which have vowed to kill us, enslave us, or convert us? Please believe me, we'd be having this conversation from my end if, in the New Testament, Saints Peter and Paul and the rest of the Apostles decided to expand the new Christ-ian sect by murdering, enslaving, or forcing conversion to THEIR religion. If, for example, the Roman Catholic Church - of which I am a member - was killing non-believers as a matter of policy today, I'd take issue with it and either find some other religion which was more compatible with the culture to which I belong.

I keep hearing the argument that the Wahabists and ISIS and Al-Qaeda and such "don't represent Islam", but apparently they represent about 25% of Islam, and that's not a minor problem.

Yet you don't see where a religion can be misconstrued to justify torturing and killing innocent people?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Yet you don't see where a religion can be misconstrued to justify torturing and killing innocent people?

I'm sorry, but the New Testament doesn't preach killing non-believers or forcing them to convert to Christianity. The New Testament DOES talk about the sinfulness of Mankind, but Christians are called to try to do better. From everything I've read about the Quran, Muhammed pretty much filled it with admonitions to kill, enslave or convert Infidels. So there is a - to me - VAST difference between a religion that preaches we should forgive others as we would be forgiven (even while recognizing that we will often fail to meet that goal) and a religion that preaches the use of the sword until all are under the "Peace of Allah."


Let me clarify this as much as I possibly can: The New Testament - which is the Christian portion of the collection of books we call the Bible - preaches love for all mankind and recognizes that Mankind is imperfect. The Quran preaches - among other things - that love and peace for Muslims, and war against Infidels. When we Christians wantonly kill each other and, incidentally, non-believers, we're going against the teachings of our Holy Book and our God; when Muslims wantonly kill non-believers; they're doing what their Holy Book says to do, as taught to them by Muhammed and presumably handed down from Allah.

Do you see the difference?

 

[easy]

What about that pesky Sharia Law thing? How many practicing Muslims here on INGO believe or wish it to be above the US Constitution and US laws?

 

[gvbcraig]

This was posted to by Facebook page by a friend,

This came from Clash Daily ? Politics. Culture. Attitude., it is a couple of years old, but captures the essence of the faith.


Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem


Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem


Hindus living with Christians = No Problem


Christians living with Shintos = No Problem


Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem


Confusians living with Baha’is = No Problem


Baha’is living with Jews = No Problem


Jews living with Atheists = No Problem


Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem


Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem


Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem


Hindus living with Baha’is = No Problem


Baha’is living with Christians = No Problem


Christians living with Jews = No Problem


Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem


Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem


Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem


Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem


Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem


Muslims living with Hindus = Problem


Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem


Muslims living with Christians = Problem


Muslims living with Jews = Problem


Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem


Muslims living with Baha’is = Problem


Muslims living with Shintos = Problem


Muslims living with Atheists = Problem


MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM

 

[Jludo]

I'm sorry, but the New Testament doesn't preach killing non-believers or forcing them to convert to Christianity. The New Testament DOES talk about the sinfulness of Mankind, but Christians are called to try to do better. From everything I've read about the Quran, Muhammed pretty much filled it with admonitions to kill, enslave or convert Infidels. So there is a - to me - VAST difference between a religion that preaches we should forgive others as we would be forgiven (even while recognizing that we will often fail to meet that goal) and a religion that preaches the use of the sword until all are under the "Peace of Allah."

So for hundreds of years you're saying Catholics simply misinterpreted the bible? I believe they used it to justify killing non believers and forcing them to convert to Christianity.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

This was posted to by Facebook page by a friend,

This came from Clash Daily ? Politics. Culture. Attitude., it is a couple of years old, but captures the essence of the faith.


Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem


Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem


Hindus living with Christians = No Problem


Christians living with Shintos = No Problem


Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem


Confusians living with Baha’is = No Problem


Baha’is living with Jews = No Problem


Jews living with Atheists = No Problem


Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem


Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem


Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem


Hindus living with Baha’is = No Problem


Baha’is living with Christians = No Problem


Christians living with Jews = No Problem


Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem


Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem


Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem


Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem


Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem


Muslims living with Hindus = Problem


Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem


Muslims living with Christians = Problem


Muslims living with Jews = Problem


Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem


Muslims living with Baha’is = Problem


Muslims living with Shintos = Problem


Muslims living with Atheists = Problem


MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM

At least some of that isn't true. Hindus and Sikhs and Hindus and Muslims have had problems for a long time. In Indonesia, up until recently, Muslims lived in peace with all faiths, although now in at least one Indonesian state, Christians and Buddhists are being persecuted by the Muslim majority. But, no, all the world's religions don't always get along and probably never have done so.

 

[Jludo]

What about that pesky Sharia Law thing? How many practicing Muslims here on INGO believe or wish it to be above the US Constitution and US laws?

I'd venture to guess less than the percentage who agree with Rick Santorum that “We have civil laws, but our civil laws have to comport with the higher law.”

 

[Drail]

Islam and Christianity will never be compatible. Just look at Israel.

 

[Jludo]

Islam and Christianity will never be compatible. Just look at Israel.

Islam and Judaism?
Israel is a political situation as much as a religious. Anytime you occupy a territory and don't give a portion of the citizens you rule over a say in your government you're gonna have problems.
Also if you claim divine right to a land you're going to have issues as well.
Jews and Muslims get along fine in other regions of the world. It'd be like saying Jews and Catholics don't get along because the Spanish Expulsion, it's just a point on a timeline, not anything inherit to either religion.

 

[PaulKersey]

Islam and Judaism?
Israel is a political situation as much as a religious. Anytime you occupy a territory and don't give a portion of the citizens you rule over a say in your government you're gonna have problems.
Also if you claim divine right to a land you're going to have issues as well.
Jews and Muslims get along fine in other regions of the world. It'd be like saying Jews and Catholics don't get along because the Spanish Expulsion, it's just a point on a timeline, not anything inherit to either religion.

I don't disagree that the Jewish claim to the Promised Land on religious grounds creates problems (though I agree with them that they have a clear right to the land). With that said, where in the world do Jews and Muslims "get along fine" where there are a significant number of each represented?

 

[KJQ6945]

I don't disagree that the Jewish claim to the Promised Land on religious grounds creates problems (though I agree with them that they have a clear right to the land). With that said, where in the world do Jews and Muslims "get along fine" where there are a significant number of each represented?

I can't wait to hear this answer.

 

[7.62]

Don't care about your religion, particularly. Don't "hate" Muslims at all. But I do want to know, from your perspective, how we distinguish between yourself and your friends - and your co-religionists ( of a different sect, probably) which have vowed to kill us, enslave us, or convert us? Please believe me, we'd be having this conversation from my end if, in the New Testament, Saints Peter and Paul and the rest of the Apostles decided to expand the new Christ-ian sect by murdering, enslaving, or forcing conversion to THEIR religion. If, for example, the Roman Catholic Church - of which I am a member - was killing non-believers as a matter of policy today, I'd take issue with it and either find some other religion which was more compatible with the culture to which I belong.

I keep hearing the argument that the Wahabists and ISIS and Al-Qaeda and such "don't represent Islam", but apparently they represent about 25% of Islam, and that's not a minor problem.

Where do these percentage's people are quoting coming from? Let's say so sake of argument the percentage of radical Muslims was actually 25% (worldwide) the percentage in the US that have lived here peacefully for many years would be a fraction of that.

 

[Jludo]

I don't disagree that the Jewish claim to the Promised Land on religious grounds creates problems (though I agree with them that they have a clear right to the land). With that said, where in the world do Jews and Muslims "get along fine" where there are a significant number of each represented?

How do you define a significant number?
The US has the second largest jewish population and I think we all get along pretty well.

 

[7.62]

I'm sorry, but the New Testament doesn't preach killing non-believers or forcing them to convert to Christianity. The New Testament DOES talk about the sinfulness of Mankind, but Christians are called to try to do better. From everything I've read about the Quran, Muhammed pretty much filled it with admonitions to kill, enslave or convert Infidels. So there is a - to me - VAST difference between a religion that preaches we should forgive others as we would be forgiven (even while recognizing that we will often fail to meet that goal) and a religion that preaches the use of the sword until all are under the "Peace of Allah."


Let me clarify this as much as I possibly can: The New Testament - which is the Christian portion of the collection of books we call the Bible - preaches love for all mankind and recognizes that Mankind is imperfect. The Quran preaches - among other things - that love and peace for Muslims, and war against Infidels. When we Christians wantonly kill each other and, incidentally, non-believers, we're going against the teachings of our Holy Book and our God; when Muslims wantonly kill non-believers; they're doing what their Holy Book says to do, as taught to them by Muhammed and presumably handed down from Allah.

Do you see the difference?

Since you have read where it's says to kill, enslave, and convert non believers please point to where it says that?

 

[7.62]

Let's also keep in mind the Quran is written in Arabic. Many words do not translate very well to English. That leaves Islamophics a lot or room to play with what it's really saying. Unless you read, speak, and understand Arabic you will not get 100% of the meaning.

 

[LPMan59]

Let's also keep in mind the Quran is written in Arabic. Many words do not translate very well to English. That leaves Islamophics a lot or room to play with what it's really saying. Unless you read, speak, and understand Arabic you will not get 100% of the meaning.

But the King James Bible? Lol

 

[BehindBlueI's]

At least some of that isn't true. Hindus and Sikhs and Hindus and Muslims have had problems for a long time. In Indonesia, up until recently, Muslims lived in peace with all faiths, although now in at least one Indonesian state, Christians and Buddhists are being persecuted by the Muslim majority. But, no, all the world's religions don't always get along and probably never have done so.

And a complete lack of understanding of what drove the Jews to form Israel. They were being persecuted by plenty of folks of various religions and no religion. If you think Jews and atheists get along fine, maybe a quick look at Russian history may tell a different story?