Dear trainers: The cost of the NRA *Basic* Pistol course is too damn high!

[rvb]

we need Obama to make training mandatory, fine us if we dont have it, create price controls and mandatory ciriculum for the trainers, distribute subsidies, and establish an on-line exchange... all because it's harder for some people to afford it than... oh wait. dammit.

-rvb

ps. forgot the obligatory:
you evil big corporate capitalist pigs!

 

[ArcadiaGP]

we need Obama to make training mandatory, fine us if we dont have it, create price controls and mandatory ciriculum for the trainers, distribute subsidies, and establish an on-line exchange... all because it's harder for some people to afford it than... oh wait. dammit.

-rvb

If government training is anything like Common Core for schools...

... God help us. We'd be loading our magazines backwards, and lubing our guns with nacho cheese.

 

[jagee]

If government training is anything like Common Core for schools...

... God help us. We'd be loading our magazines backwards, and lubing our guns with nacho cheese.

I've been lurking on this thread until now...

...and all I have to say is...

mmmmm nacho cheese...

 

[iChokePeople]

A lot of people seeking that training may not even make that much.

Been to a movie lately?

 

[CB45]

Been to a movie lately?

I'm not drawing the line from entertainment to basic firearms training.

$12 movie ticket. 2 hr movie. $6/hr entertainment vs $75/hr instructor pay rate???

 

[BravoMike]

I'm not drawing the line from entertainment to basic firearms training.

$12 movie ticket. 2 hr movie. $6/hr entertainment vs $75/hr instructor pay rate???

Make sure you apply the same math that you did in your earlier post.

I think the basic course is 4hrs. That makes it $12.5/hr per student. 10 students makes it 125/hr...

From a marketing standpoint, I'd want to offer the entry level training for as cheaply as possible. Customers are more likely to return if they feel good about their first purchase... but what do I know? I'm just a dumb engineer.


Edit: Even if the basic course is 8hrs. 10 students still brings in $75/ hr... good money

How many seats in a movie theater?

 

[CB45]

Make sure you apply the same math that you did in your earlier post.


How many seats in a movie theater?

That's my point. There is no correlation between the two. There were qustion marks after the equation.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I think the basic course is 4hrs. That makes it $12.5/hr per student. 10 students makes it 125/hr...

From a marketing standpoint, I'd want to offer the entry level training for as cheaply as possible. Customers are more likely to return if they feel good about their first purchase... but what do I know? I'm just a dumb engineer.


Edit: Even if the basic course is 8hrs. 10 students still brings in $75/ hr... good money

It's a MINIMUM of 8 hours.

 

[NHT3]

I suppose I'll weigh in on this since I've just started teaching the NRA basic pistol class. When I teach a class I limit it to 4 people because I want to give the students at least 15-20 minutes each of personal attention at the range. I've found that with less than that most "noobs" are not properly prepared and don't have a solid foundation for practice. My goal is for them to be able to hit a 5.5" target @ 7 yards on a consistent basis. I start them at the range with a 22 pistol, or revolver, which ever they prefer until they are confident of hits and then if they have their own pistol they get time with it also. I furnish the 22 pistols, ammo, targets and range time.
I think most people on this board have experience shooting but my normal student has never fired a handgun so it's a bit of a different and more involved process teaching a noob rather than a somewhat experienced shooter. I'm not making a fortune on what I'm doing and to be perfectly honest I could spend 8 hours at work on Saturday and make more money. It's very rewarding for me to see someone accomplish something they thought would very difficult so my enjoyment of what I"m doing plays a large part in why I do it.
To get a certification to teach you are first required to take the basic pistol course. In my case the course one day and range the next. I also spent another weekend and several hundred dollars to get instructor certification. I've invested ahead of time in training packets and other training aids that also amount to a few hundred dollars and of course a venue to teach the class. I do it because I enjoy it but I"m not going to spend all day and lose money on the class or for that matter break even. I have a family and it does add to some extent to our income but enjoyment, meeting new people and bringing new shooters to the sport are my motives, plain and simple. I seldom go the range that I don't see people that would benefit from the class I teach, if for no other reason than the safety concerns involved.
I paid "triple digits" for the basic class when I went through it and thought it was worth every penny. Although I had been shooting for 30 years and my reason for taking the class was the possibility of going on to get instructor certification I certainly didn't feel the class was over priced or a waste of my time. I know some people are on a tight budget but as others have said it's an expensive hobby and has the potential to be life threatening so just like most people take drivers education I think it's a worthwhile investment.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]Ruger MK III mechanic [FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT]Certified Glock armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] --[/FONT]1911 Mechanic

 

[VERT]

Only problem with all this math is that I have never personally been in a class with one instructor. (except one on one) Assume 3-6 students per instructor. Then take out the cost of materials.

NRA Basic Pistol - $11 per packet + shipping + sales tax = about $15
Insurance is tough because it is a fixed cost. Mine is $365/yr so depends on the number of students. Easy math say $5-$10 per student because I do this as a hobby.
Range fees are tough. Conservation Club is $50 plus if I donate a bit. But easy math again lets say $10.
Other materials ????? $5 fair?
Food???... Snacks? Coffee? Lets forget that for a minute.

By my math it costs a minimum a $35 per student for an NRA course. Not counting any investment in presentation , display or a classroom. I can use the conservation club so I am lucky. No more then 4 students per instructor.

$100 - $35 = $65 x 4 = $260 divide by 8 hours plus setup and such. I get there a couple hours early and stay well past the class ending. So $260 / 12 = $21.67 an hour. This does not include income tax, advertising, certification or training, yada yada yada.

Guys I make more then $21 at my job. Of course I don't charge $100 for an NRA course either. But I do mot think those that do are out of line.

 

[iChokePeople]

That's my point. There is no correlation between the two. There were qustion marks after the equation.

Speaking of no correlation...

I didn't quote you. I quoted Kidd, who mentioned that the hourly cost of the training is greater than some people's hourly wage. If that's your standard, most INGOers can't take their spouse (let alone kids) to the movies anymore. You can't calculate the value of a product or service by comparing it to minimum wage.

supply and demand. No matter how many times we rehash this subject, supply and demand will dictate the price of classes, guns, ammunition, and midget strippers.

 

[churchmouse]

Been to a movie lately?

I took the wife,son,grand daughter and myself the other day....Saw Frozen....great flick. Glad we went. Not so glad for the $90 that was taken from my wallet.

Yeah.....I said WALLET

 

[iChokePeople]

I took the wife,son,grand daughter and myself the other day....Saw Frozen....great flick. Glad we went. Not so glad for the $90 that was taken from my wallet.

Yeah.....I said WALLET

WALLET!!

good thing you make over $45/hour or those prices would be unreasonable.

 

[churchmouse]

Speaking of no correlation...

I didn't quote you. I quoted Kidd, who mentioned that the hourly cost of the training is greater than some people's hourly wage. If that's your standard, most INGOers can't take their spouse (let alone kids) to the movies anymore. You can't calculate the value of a product or service by comparing it to minimum wage.

supply and demand. No matter how many times we rehash this subject, supply and demand will dictate the price of classes, guns, ammunition, and midget strippers.

I get the same crap about how much it costs to fix the A/C or furnace. No one really wants to pay the freight. Why does it cost so much??? because it does.

I was lucky enough to be trained initially by Military people. They had a lot to do with how I shoot/defend to this day. I have passed all of that on to my children and now other family members.
I paid for 1 class last year and gained some knowledge.

 

[Jackson]

I think the basic course is 4hrs. That makes it $12.5/hr per student. 10 students makes it 125/hr...

From a marketing standpoint, I'd want to offer the entry level training for as cheaply as possible. Customers are more likely to return if they feel good about their first purchase... but what do I know? I'm just a dumb engineer.


Edit: Even if the basic course is 8hrs. 10 students still brings in $75/ hr... good money

75/hr gross. This doesn't account for the cost of putting on the class or set-up/prep/teardown time. Those costs are detailed upthread so I wont bring them up again. I don't know if cost per hour is the best way to value training. I am just pointing out the relative cost compared to the training you mentioned. NRA Basic Pistol is an 8 hour class.

 

[Shay]

Training will always be too expensive.

I'm a broken record.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I want training and I only have $6.53

 

[iChokePeople]

Training will always be too expensive.

QFT

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Really? You act like it's a $400 class plus 500 rounds of ammo. I took the protection within the home class. Mostly for the law side of it. I did not see it as a waste of money. How many of you waste money on eating out, movies, etc? How many of you buy all the tactical high speed gear that just sits in the closet?

 

[the1kidd03]

Speaking of no correlation...

I didn't quote you. I quoted Kidd, who mentioned that the hourly cost of the training is greater than some people's hourly wage. If that's your standard, most INGOers can't take their spouse (let alone kids) to the movies anymore. You can't calculate the value of a product or service by comparing it to minimum wage.

supply and demand. No matter how many times we rehash this subject, supply and demand will dictate the price of classes, guns, ammunition, and midget strippers.

That's my entire point however. Trainers in this area, at least most of them, don't adjust price based on supply/demand. Very few drop below $125 for a basic class all while there are more than a dozen options available. Many of the same ones admit to struggling in filling up those classes, yet don't charge less. That's demanding a price and not getting the supply and that is not how this principle works.

What you're essentially saying is that same rehashed point about priorities. That is placing all responsibility on potential students, and taking it entirely off the instructor/business owner. That's not business. It's easy to just pass it off as "oh THEY don't have their priorities straight." It's much more difficult to say, "What can I do better to convince them to reorganize their priorities?" Sorry, but the old tale of "build it and they will come" is not how a successful business works in today's market. If you want to make money in business, you have to advertise and sell your product; not belittle the buyer because you haven't convinced them yet. Convince them they need it or how it will benefit them. You can't simply "make it available and hope it sells." If someone is not getting the numbers they want in their classes, then an effective business leader researches why that is and addresses it rather than passes it off with excuses to deflect reasoning.

The level of demand determines your price. However, for most around here it seems their competition determines their price. "Oh, so and so charges this much, so then I should to." In the eyes of a buyer, especially a noob and one seeking a specifically NRA basic class, they will be swayed by price and convenience mostly. Their "goal" would be free and not leaving their home. Realistically, that's not feasible so they will shoot for as close to that as they can get. They will not pay attention to much else, at least not the majority of those who would be interested in NRA curriculum.