Dear trainers: The cost of the NRA *Basic* Pistol course is too damn high!

[BravoMike]

Y'all can thank me with hundo dolla bills next time you see me if you want.

Sure thing.... you come up with a lesson plan, venue, insurance, and provide feedback then I'll give you a hundo for a basic pistol class.

So you really need some one to tell you in person to not point a gun a something your not willing to destroy? Different strokes, different folks. That's the beauty of America. If there is a market, some capitalist will take advantage of it.

We always feel the need to have someone tell us how to do everything. What happened to the "figure it out" mentality. Be safe, use the available resources at your disposal, and learn.

People are getting highschool diplomas and college degrees from internet videos... food for thought.

Food for thought, not doctors, pilots or mechanics. Can you name a degree that one can get that involves a PRACTICAL skill?

Does one need to take a basic pistol class? No. It's not just needing someone to tell you about the 4 basic saftey rules, but also someone to provide feedback on what you are doing is actually safe and correct. Also, receiving instruction that is organized in a logical manner through a syllabus rather than piecemealing it from YouTube videos may have its merits. I agree with you that there are different ways of doing it, but it depends on how that person values their time. Do they want to get it over with in an 8 hour day or spend countless hours on YouTube, hoping they are getting the correct information with no feedback?

 

[the1kidd03]

What happened to the "figure it out" mentality.

Largely how I learned accuracy growing up. Before the internet, finding good "instructors" wasn't easy other than going to local competitions. I couldn't always afford to compete, but ammo was relatively cheap. Practice and figure it out. It may cost more in the long run, but it was a different time and advances in technology has allowed for many things.

There's a lot of crossover from other industries which could be applied to the gun community. It seems, most of the industry is just behind the times in coming around to that.

 

[lovemachine]

What I'm saying is that hands on training is ALWAYS better than getting it from books/videos.

No matter what the topic is, hands on is always better.

 

[the1kidd03]

"Military experience" is WAY too broad a brush to come to any conclusion about what training/experience someone will have. On the old 1 to 10 scale, "military experience" will get you every single notch on the scale.

Agreed. My comment was assuming a combat arms MOS with such training and regular qualifications. I forgot how a lot of people view that "brush" as a catch all.

 

[the1kidd03]

Sure thing.... you come up with a lesson plan, venue, insurance, and provide feedback then I'll give you a hundo for a basic pistol class.


Food for thought, not doctors, pilots or mechanics. Can you name a degree that one can get that involves a PRACTICAL skill?

Yes, ALL of them.

That doesn't mean they have learned it WELL or are as good at it as others. However, you will be very challenged to find any educational program in the US that does not involve at least some classes or coursework being done electronically. Big business utilizes this technique quite extensively as well.

Everyone has different modes of learning that they react better to. Some people it might be a combination of those, which is typically a goal in a well rounded education environment.

 

[iChokePeople]

Agreed. My comment was assuming a combat arms MOS with such training and regular qualifications. I forgot how a lot of people view that "brush" as a catch all.

Even "combat arms" will get you everything from 2 to 10. Tankers and gunbunnies don't spend much time with their personal weapons.

edited to remove an unnecessary jab at 13booboos.

 

[BravoMike]

...It may cost more in the long run...

This is the conclusion that I came to with myself. I am self-taught for the basics and have taken training to validate what I do is correct, but I know I spent more than if I would have just taken an NRA Basic Pistol class. There is a saying that says something about not seeing the forest through the trees. That was me.

When my wife wanted to learn how to shoot, I gladly sent her to Tactical Firearms Training and paid $175.

 

[the1kidd03]

Even "combat arms" will get you everything from 2 to 10. Tankers and gunbunnies don't spend much time with their personal weapons.

edited to remove an unnecessary jab at 13booboos.

True. Sometimes things just seem to be common sense, aren't.

 

[BravoMike]

Yes, ALL of them.

Are you saying that I can earn a college degree as a doctor, pilot or mechanic without ever receiving training, but instead watching a video?

 

[the1kidd03]

This is the conclusion that I came to with myself. I am self-taught for the basics and have taken training to validate what I do is correct, but I know I spent more than if I would have just taken an NRA Basic Pistol class. There is a saying that says something about not seeing the forest through the trees. That was me.

When my wife wanted to learn how to shoot, I gladly sent her to Tactical Firearms Training and paid $175.

I was sort of self-taught for several years. Back then, safety seemed more like common sense than anything. Shooting around the farm with the family I knew not to point it at anything that shouldn't be shot. I didn't have to be taught that, although it was on gun manuals and such which at those ages I actually read. Fast forward to about the age of 10-12 and I started traveling with my uncle to competitions. That's when a whole new world of learning started hitting me. Of course, like I said, professional training wasn't easy to find like it is today.

Good on you for doing that with your wife. My wife "says" she listens to me when I try, but I know most of it goes in and out for what I speculate as being a desire to please me with her knowledge. It's always better to have someone else do the training for a significant other, IMO. They tend to actually listen better.

 

[the1kidd03]

Are you saying that I can earn a college degree as a doctor, pilot or mechanic without ever receiving training, but instead watching a video?

Not at all. Of course, some level of practical application is required. However, a great deal of learning before putting hands to work takes place through video and other technology based learning aids. It's more efficient for large learning programs. I know guys who are in their final year of college for very technical programs and who have yet to actually put hands on any real equipment/work.

There is a lot of value to it. You can learn the concepts, techniques, etc. However, we're human. We make mistakes. That is where the need for "hands on" comes in. To make those mistakes when it's not critical and to learn from them for improvement.

In other words: Can you learn it? Of course. Does that mean you're good at it? Not necessarily. It's possible, but that would be for but a few of the people rather than the majority.

 

[CB45]

What I'm saying is that hands on training is ALWAYS better than getting it from books/videos.

No matter what the topic is, hands on is always better.

I agree whole heartedly that hands on learning is the best learning technique. It just isn't necessary to take a $100 class to get basic handgun safety. My point is that the premium price for the basics, in my opinion, is not necessary. I would support a basic firearms class that was under $50, but any more then that is just crazy talk. We should be welcoming people into the firearms community, not scaring them away with $100+ " Basic Firearms" classes.

I totally understand higher prices for advanced training. That's another discussion. Obviously, high level operator skills can only be attained via the most skilled trainers.

 

[the1kidd03]

I agree whole heartedly that hands on learning is the best learning technique. It just isn't necessary to take a $100 class to get basic handgun safety. My point is that the premium price for the basics, in my opinion, is not necessary. I would support a basic firearms class that was under $50, but any more then that is just crazy talk. We should be welcoming people into the firearms community, not scaring them away with $100+ " Basic Firearms" classes.

I totally understand higher prices for advanced training. That's another discussion. Obviously, high level operator skills can only be attained via the most skilled trainers.

Agreed.

 

[jocmurph]

Here's a couple training classes that are, IMO, way too cheap for the quality training you will receive.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ol-march-22-2014-riley-conservation-club.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ay-private-instruction-march-8-2014-mcfg.html

Thanks for the info!

 

[GIJEW]

So you really need some one to tell you in person to not point a gun a something your not willing to destroy? Different strokes, different folks. That's the beauty of America. If there is a market, some capitalist will take advantage of it.

We always feel the need to have someone tell us how to do everything. What happened to the "figure it out" mentality. Be safe, use the available resources at your disposal, and learn.
"So, you really need someone to tell you in person to not point a gun..." is an example of what 'lovemachine' and others are saying. An instructor can correct mistakes the student isn't aware of, and point HOW to avoid mistakes. If you want to shoot up 10 times as much ammo trying to "figure it out", go for it. Basics like SAFE gun handling aren't the place to just "figure it out". I'm not saying that an NRA basic class is the only place or the best to learn. The quality of the class is only as good as the instructor's ability to teach the material. If it's worthwhile to pay $500-$750 for 2-3 days of "high-speed, "low-drag" shooting, why is $100 for +/- 10hrs to get a solid basis in safety and fundamentals too much? Like I said earlier, one thing to keep in mind about the cost of NRA basic classes, is that some are taught by schools that have to make a profit to exist, while others are taught non-profit by gun clubs that already have facilities, insurance, and volunteers.

 

[CB45]

Here's a couple training classes that are, IMO, way too cheap for the quality training you will receive.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ol-march-22-2014-riley-conservation-club.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ay-private-instruction-march-8-2014-mcfg.html

Yes yes yes!!! This is worth the $$$ spent! Coach offers a great product for a more than reasonable price.

Companies out there are 3-4x the cost, and offer less. Last I looked, his basic firearms class is no where near $100.

The wiz bang training I took was not for one days worth of training. Averaged $20/hr for the instruction. Very reasonable for specialized instruction.

 

[Jackson]

An 8 hour class for $100.00 is $12.50/hr. So we're saying $6:25/hr is the max for a basic class?

 

[CB45]

I think the basic course is 4hrs. That makes it $12.5/hr per student. 10 students makes it 125/hr...

From a marketing standpoint, I'd want to offer the entry level training for as cheaply as possible. Customers are more likely to return if they feel good about their first purchase... but what do I know? I'm just a dumb engineer.


Edit: Even if the basic course is 8hrs. 10 students still brings in $75/ hr... good money

 

[the1kidd03]

An 8 hour class for $100.00 is $12.50/hr.

A lot of people seeking that training may not even make that much.

Demographically speaking, those who are more likely to need a gun for defense, are also of lower income households typically. Oddly enough, I would suggest this is also the demographic which would need this training the most.

 

[the1kidd03]

I think the basic course is 4hrs. That makes it $12.5/hr per student. 10 students makes it 125/hr...

From a marketing standpoint, I'd want to offer the entry level training for as cheaply as possible. Customers are more likely to return if they feel good about their first purchase... but what do I know? I'm just a dumb engineer.

Yep. Not to mention the social benefits.