Dear trainers: The cost of the NRA *Basic* Pistol course is too damn high!

[ArcadiaGP]

Specialized, hands-on training is something that will likely never go away. I can teach myself how to repair my washer and dryer, or something not-too-mechanical in my car... just through self-teaching and Internet research. I doubt I can teach myself how to operate a process control valve at Lilly.

As said before, these "Intro" classes feel obsolete if all they're doing is rehashing the rules of firearms, and how to take-apart and reassemble.

The useful training, I think, would be someone with you at a range, helping you with grip, breathing, aiming, etc.

 

[churchmouse]

Specialized, hands-on training is something that will likely never go away. I can teach myself how to repair my washer and dryer, or something not-too-mechanical in my car... just through self-teaching and Internet research. I doubt I can teach myself how to operate a process control valve at Lilly.

As said before, these "Intro" classes feel obsolete if all they're doing is rehashing the rules of firearms, and how to take-apart and reassemble.

The useful training, I think, would be someone with you at a range, helping you with grip, breathing, aiming, etc.

It depends on the person. Some folks need the hands held even through the "Basics".

Never start at the range. Especially with a group of total newbies.

 

[VERT]

I am not aware of a basic class that does not cover fundamentals like grip, trigger control, sight alignment. As far as safety rules, yes they are on the internet. That is if people know to look for them. I agree about the cleaning part. Guns have owners manuals and I still refer to mine sometimes. But some people don't know where to start.

 

[churchmouse]

I am not aware of a basic class that does not cover fundamentals like grip, trigger control, sight alignment. As far as safety rules, yes they are on the internet. That is if people know to look for them. I agree about the cleaning part. Guns have owners manuals and I still refer to mine sometimes. But some people don't know where to start.

Internet can "show" the techniques etc. but some folks just need more.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Internet can "show" the techniques etc. but some folks just need more.

Yeah, it is a lot about learning style. I'm proficient in computers. I know how to do things, and I taught myself everything I know.

My wife is very smart. But, she needed to be walked through doing certain things in the computing world... and now she's proficient. She couldn't look it up or read about it and be able to do it as well as she can now.

She can build a computer now, because I had her do it with my supervision and guidance. Teaching yourself how to do it with YouTube videos might prove to be a difficult process. Each person learns differently, and I can see how some people might need another person in front of them telling them what to do and not to do with a gun.

 

[iChokePeople]

Videos are no substitute for a live, experienced instructor. The cat in the video can't see what YOU're doing right and wrong, where YOU might need to adjust something. They have their place, and you can certainly learn from them, but comparing them to a live instructor? No.

Just last week I was running some drills with Pat Mac, (you know, with him participating via youtube...), and he never once corrected me or recommended that I try something different. Every single time I train with the Virays or cedartop (just to pick a couple of INGOers), they make suggestions about things I can do to try to improve, changes I might make.

 

[esrice]

Videos are no substitute for a live, experienced instructor. The cat in the video can't see what YOU're doing right and wrong, where YOU might need to adjust something. They have their place, and you can certainly learn from them, but comparing them to a live instructor? No.

Agreed.

This becomes doubly apparent when training with live resistance. You can watch all the YouTube fight videos you want, but you'll learn more about yourself in the first 15 seconds of even light sparring (it sucks, need more cardio, etc). lol

 

[CB45]

The one and only hickok45 on gun safety:
[video=youtube;kQrlDUIZ3f0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQrlDUIZ3f0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

 

[CB45]

Grip and stance fundamentals by the US USPSA Open Champion:
[video=youtube;RgByPFHCpQE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgByPFHCpQE&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

 

[CB45]

And a funny one, not that gun safety is funny, but because I like to laugh.
[video=youtube;fpgL5kuBpMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

 

[jocmurph]

What are these cheap opportunities you speak of?

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Having never met me and having no idea of my financial situation, your comments I highlighted in orange are baseless assumptions that frankly do not add anything constructive to our discussion...

At no point in my OP did I indicate that *I* couldn't afford it, so No, Sir, I won't be changing the title. I think the NRA Basic Pistol Class should be less than $100, subsidized by the NRA if need be (I like Kirk's tax deduction idea as well) as a way to allow/encourage more people to get training without .gov making it a mandate. That is why I care what is being charged. The more trained responsible gun owners there are, the less influence the gun-grabbers can have in trying to spread their lies about guns & gun owners, so it is in our interest to have as many at least basically trained, responsible gun-owners as possible, wouldn't you agree?
Regarding being an "expert", I *did* in fact qualify as a Rifle Expert multiple times while part of this really cool gun club called the United States Marine Corps. However, I didn't get to qualify on the pistol (only fam fired and had some training with Marines that were assigned to the Presidential Protective Detail) due to my MOS. So, even though I can usually hit what I'm aiming at with a pistol, I am sure there are probably a few things I could in fact pick up from a basic class to improve my static paper punching skills, thus the snide and frankly unprofessional remark about my "expertise" was uncalled for...

Be that as it may, as one of the prominent trainers teaching this class, I appreciate your reply, Mr DeWitt, and my original post should not have been perceived as a personal attack on you, or your operation, sir. I am simply of the opinion that $100+ for the NRA Basic Pistol class is too high, and your insight as what may be driving that cost is insightful.

I hear ya on the military experience. I too have military experience. I qualified expert on the 1911 in basic at the age of 17. That coupled with decades of shooting with a father who was also prior military and an FFL made me an "expert" pistolero! Until I took NRA Basic Pistol and sat there saying to myself time and time again: "Wow... I didn't know that!" I shot pretty well before that. I shot much better after.

We find that most of the folks with military experience have very poor safe gun handling habits! Not knocking the military... it's just a fact. Their training is different out of necessity than that of civilians. Thus there tends to be some gaps in knowledge when it comes to many fundamental concepts of marksmanship and safety.

We love the fact that experienced shooters come and take our courses. Very slowly we are getting our citizens all on the same page from a safety and fundamentals standpoint. If an experienced shooter takes the course with a spouse or child, everyone in the household is on the same page. THIS is what is making a difference.

I did not take what you said as a personal "attack" per se. I did however think that the average INGO member 'prolly has no clue as to what is involved in teaching these courses. One thing to keep in mind is value. What are you getting for your money? Even though we all have to use the same base curriculum, we are allowed to add our experience and expertise. Types of visual aids, hands on time, firearms available, comfort of surroundings... these all make some courses more valuable than others. They also tend to cost more to put on. Your "an 8-hour this is the end the ouchy things we call bullets come from" *BASIC* pistol class" comment was rather inflammatory though, lol!

 

[lovemachine]

What are these cheap opportunities you speak of?

Here's a couple training classes that are, IMO, way too cheap for the quality training you will receive.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ol-march-22-2014-riley-conservation-club.html

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ay-private-instruction-march-8-2014-mcfg.html

 

[CB45]

Y'all can thank me with hundo dolla bills next time you see me if you want.

 

[lovemachine]

It's humorous that anyone would think that YouTube videos is a good substitute for live personal one-on-one training.

 

[CB45]

It's humorous that anyone would think that YouTube videos is a good substitute for live personal one-on-one training.

No one said it was a substitute for one on one training. Just a substitute for the basics. Read my previous post about paying for training.

 

[lovemachine]

Still not a substitute for the basics.

 

[CB45]

Still not a substitute for the basics.

So you really need some one to tell you in person to not point a gun a something your not willing to destroy? Different strokes, different folks. That's the beauty of America. If there is a market, some capitalist will take advantage of it.

We always feel the need to have someone tell us how to do everything. What happened to the "figure it out" mentality. Be safe, use the available resources at your disposal, and learn.

People are getting highschool diplomas and college degrees from internet videos... food for thought.

 

[the1kidd03]

We find that most of the folks with military experience have very poor safe gun handling habits! Not knocking the military... it's just a fact. Their training is different out of necessity than that of civilians. Thus there tends to be some gaps in knowledge when it comes to many fundamental concepts of marksmanship and safety.

Safety, AGREED. Marksmanship, perhaps in the old days. Not so much today.

Fundamentals are no different, but in civilian context you get to stress a level of accuracy that is not absolutely necessary to put a body on the ground and instead knock out 1" groups.

 

[iChokePeople]

"Military experience" is WAY too broad a brush to come to any conclusion about what training/experience someone will have. On the old 1 to 10 scale, "military experience" will get you every single notch on the scale.