Dear trainers: The cost of the NRA *Basic* Pistol course is too damn high!

[iChokePeople]

Even if the course was free, there would still be people complaining that it was a 15-minute drive, or that they had to provide their own ammo, or that lunch wasn't provided. There is no price, no amount of gift wrapping that will overcome the objections of those who don't understand the value or refuse to make it a priority. For 95% of those reading this, it's about priorities and choices... And that's fine -- just own it and stop throwing blame and excuses.

 

[the1kidd03]

I have a auestion about training vs cost. what if you are looking to train with high profile trainers? Do you or anyone think it is "fair" to charge 7-800 for a Travis Haley or Costa classes? Just a defensive handgun 1 or carbine 1 class. Yes they are usually over two days but thats still 3-400. Are they providing better training thats worth that? Do you think Yeager deserves his 400 or something, what about range time? When you consider gas and travel expenses it could be closer to 200 or more for a basic NRA class.

I have trained some not as much as I would have liked but I still got close to 20 hours. I understand the OP when he feels basic should be less to encourage people more to get involved and have at least some training. I agree with that but I would also pay my trainer a fair amount since they need to make a living too.

I don't know if I would call it "fair" necessarily.

Look at it this way. Someone such as those you list are highly sought after with real world combat experience. This obviously commands a slightly higher price if the demand is there (there classes are rapidly filled at a lower price). Then, consider that much of their training is on the road. They cover their regular costs, travel, hotels, and any other fees or profit for the affiliate ranges that host them.

The question then becomes, "Are you going to learn anything from them that you can't learn elsewhere for less?"

The NRA actually has relatively low standards for getting their training certification. I have no doubts that this is intentional and meant to "flood" the market with people teaching the basics to have a positive societal impact. That increase in basics instructors SHOULD drive the cost of that training down because there is so much competition available.

 

[Turf Doctor]

This link is not talking about NRA classes only but training in general.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/241187-training-too-expensive.html

People have different thoughts regarding cost and what they receive from it when taking a class or purchasing a gun.
For those who like to buy guns / collect, that may be their priority For those that like to invest in training, you may evaluate what the price is to what you get in return.

I would encourage everyone to get some training, even if is very basic.

Be safe..

 

[bwframe]

I have a auestion about training vs cost. what if you are looking to train with high profile trainers? Do you or anyone think it is "fair" to charge 7-800 for a Travis Haley or Costa classes? Just a defensive handgun 1 or carbine 1 class. Yes they are usually over two days but thats still 3-400. Are they providing better training thats worth that? Do you think Yeager deserves his 400 or something, what about range time? When you consider gas and travel expenses it could be closer to 200 or more for a basic NRA class. ...

The market dictates what the big names make. Nothing wrong with making what you can. Matt Burkett said that his classes booked full after doubling his prices.

For my needs and wallet, I'll look to my local trainers to keep their education advancing and attend the higher level (read $) stuff. I'm happy to support them and pay less/travel shorter. If I'm lucky, they'll break down the instruction to into smaller blocks. A one day class is MUCH more desirable to me than the whole weekend.

 

[the1kidd03]

This link is not talking about NRA classes only but training in general.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/241187-training-too-expensive.html

People have different thoughts regarding cost and what they receive from it when taking a class or purchasing a gun.
For those who like to buy guns / collect, that may be their priority For those that like to invest in training, you may evaluate what the price is to what you get in return.

I would encourage everyone to get some training, even if is very basic.

Be safe..

Yep, and if this thread I created a while back is any indication of anything, it would appear that only ~35% of gun owners own them for intentional defensive use
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general-firearms-discussion/231665-why-do-you-shoot.html

 

[Rocko]

What do basic handgun courses consist of? My fiance and my friends fiance were talking about going into a class together, but wasn't sure what basics were taught. Are they usually worth the money or should I just show her the basics on my own?

 

[VERT]

What do basic handgun courses consist of? My fiance and my friends fiance were talking about going into a class together, but wasn't sure what basics were taught. Are they usually worth the money or should I just show her the basics on my own?

First off Rocko, DON'T TEACH YOUR WIFE/GIRLFRIEND! I pay other people to work with Mrs.VERT.

Basic Classes differ. Most will include safety, shooting fundamentals, maybe some terminology. NRA spends time on types of guns and maintenance. Non NRA defensive type classes usually introduce awareness or topics related to use of force. Intro gun handling classes might focus on draw stroke and such.

 

[IamLegend]

It's my understanding that the NRA basic pistol course is just that, basic. It is set up for the absolute beginner. I'm not sure why some that are past the "beginner" stage are arguing price and wether they would take this class. Awhile back I began teaching my wife and children the basics. Took some training myself but wanted to be responsible in teaching them correctly not to mention other friends and family came outa the wood work showing interest in learning when they heard i was working with the wife and kids so I decided to take the NRA instructor course. About that time I happened to meet a fella locally that encouraged me and said I could get my feet wet instructing for his company. After becoming certified he has not returned any of my calls so ive been trying to figure out how to get started not really knowing anybody in this business. To be honest the certifiction was not what I expected at all but I continually remind myself as to why I did it to begin with and the fact that it's kind of a stepping stone towards some other goals. Getting back to the price conversation, I finally spoke with the owner of the local range I shoot at a lot about using their facility for the range part of the course and possibly holding the entire course there as well. My thoughts are to offer the course for $75.00 to $100.00. Also looking for other instructors in my area that are more experienced than myself that are interested. I guess my overall point though is that this is a class for people new to firearms and want to start with the basics, especially safety.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I have found that free training with free ammo is too expensive for most people.

 

[CTS]

My wife and I paid $125 each for our NRA Basic Pistol course and I felt like we got an amazing value. I went from not really having handled a firearm and apprehensive to being relatively comfortable since I now had a basic understanding of the mechanics. Teaching a 4 hour class @ $25 a student is fine if it's something you do out of an interest in growing the shooting community, but it's not a business model. I take new people to the range fairly often for free, but that's essentially charity. The instruction I received was fantastic and I think I got a tremendous value, I hope the instructor was able to turn a good profit for his investment.

 

[NIFT]

Here is an unsolicited testimonial from a (very frugal!) student. He is concerned with return on investment

I have got to say, you have saved me a lot of money. I literally could shoot ten thousand rounds, not taken the course and shoot better with the course, only shooting 200 rounds. Even though I had read, watched videos, shot a couple thousand rounds, I was not even close to what I accomplished after the very first round the second day.


The first day surprised me what I did not know. Sgt. De Young brought all into focus within the first ten minutes the second day. I would say only 25% of becoming a great shot is in the actual shooting, the rest is in mindset, stance, trigger control, grip and learning to do it right!.


Ron
April, 2013 (Handgun I & II)

 

[Shay]

For most gun owners, training will always be too expensive regardless of the cost.

I have given away classes to people who didn't bother showing up.

 

[cedartop]

For most gun owners, training will always be too expensive regardless of the cost.

I have given away classes to people who didn't bother showing up.

Sorry to quote you twice in the same morning, but you are correct. I have also had no shows on free classes.

 

[lovemachine]

I'd show up early and stay late for a free class...

 

[bingley]

Yes, "poor" is an insult where I come from.

What do you want me to say? I'm sorry you come from a place with such shallow, messed up values. I hope what I've written will help you see things differently regarding poverty.

 

[shibumiseeker]

For most gun owners, training will always be too expensive regardless of the cost.

I have given away classes to people who didn't bother showing up.

Sorry to quote you twice in the same morning, but you are correct. I have also had no shows on free classes.

We kick this around frequently in the organization for which I am in charge (a nationwide SAR training organization).

Our seminar costs are the lowest technical rescue training you can get anywhere, period. This only happens because all of the instructors (1:5 instructor:student ratio) volunteer their time, travel, and many other expenses. Our intro classes are relatively cheap ($30-35 for a weekend), which gets a fair amount of our target audience, but not as many can afford to go on to our week-long advanced training (4 different levels that build on each other) as that is often $500-600 which covers meals, lodging, instruction, and insurance (oh, "week" is a misnomer, it's actually 8 days from breakfast at 7am until end of day at 10:30pm). People coming from technical rescue agencies are used to paying $1500-2000 for similar trainings, a price which doesn't cover meals and lodging and is usually a 5 day week from 8-5. So those folks are happy to pay for our training, but usually appreciate it the least because they are on the clock to be there.

Our most involved and engaged students are the ones it personally cost to be there, and the more they had to scrape together the more they tend to get out of it. Those people are our target audience. We've really struggled to not only keep costs down, but also how to enable more of those types of folks to attend. We can't really get costs much lower since our instructors aren't paid and often are donating more than just their time and travel expenses. So we created an endowed scholarship program that is need AND merit based and gives an avenue for those who really can't afford the training to be able to attend. We now can offer several scholarships that cover half the cost of the seminar to those the committee feels deserve it most. As the endowment grows we have offered more scholarships.

FWIW, the first year I took the training, 1992, the seminar cost was $190 with the meal plan and $120 without, and I couldn't afford the meal plan so I ate ramen and PBJ the entire week and had an absolute blast. I was sitting in class with professional rescuers who were paid to be there and they spent most of the week acting bored and superior, in spite of the fact their skills didn't warrant it.

 

[churchmouse]

Even if the course was free, there would still be people complaining that it was a 15-minute drive, or that they had to provide their own ammo, or that lunch wasn't provided. There is no price, no amount of gift wrapping that will overcome the objections of those who don't understand the value or refuse to make it a priority. For 95% of those reading this, it's about priorities and choices... And that's fine -- just own it and stop throwing blame and excuses.

Rep mag empty.....+9 to you sir.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

What do you want me to say? I'm sorry you come from a place with such shallow, messed up values. I hope what I've written will help you see things differently regarding poverty.

No. The "holier than thou" approach rarely helps anyone see anything differently. Just makes them see you with more disdain.

I'm aware of what poverty is, and I don't need an explanation on it. But calling me, or someone else "poor", when they definitely are not... that's not a flattering moniker.

 

[CB45]

What I don't get is that most, if not all, of the information is available for free via the internet. YouTube is a powerful tool.

As I see it, $100 is a lot to pay for a certificate that says I read the four basic gun handling rules and know how to take apart my gun. I can see justification for advanced firearms training. The instructors have refined their craft and you are paying to know what they know.

In 2013 I paid more than $500 for competitive pistol training. It was worth it to me because I saw results from it.

YMMV

 

[churchmouse]

We kick this around frequently in the organization for which I am in charge (a nationwide SAR training organization).

Our seminar costs are the lowest technical rescue training you can get anywhere, period. This only happens because all of the instructors (1:5 instructor:student ratio) volunteer their time, travel, and many other expenses. Our intro classes are relatively cheap ($30-35 for a weekend), which gets a fair amount of our target audience, but not as many can afford to go on to our week-long advanced training (4 different levels that build on each other) as that is often $500-600 which covers meals, lodging, instruction, and insurance (oh, "week" is a misnomer, it's actually 8 days from breakfast at 7am until end of day at 10:30pm). People coming from technical rescue agencies are used to paying $1500-2000 for similar trainings, a price which doesn't cover meals and lodging and is usually a 5 day week from 8-5. So those folks are happy to pay for our training, but usually appreciate it the least because they are on the clock to be there.

Our most involved and engaged students are the ones it personally cost to be there, and the more they had to scrape together the more they tend to get out of it. Those people are our target audience. We've really struggled to not only keep costs down, but also how to enable more of those types of folks to attend. We can't really get costs much lower since our instructors aren't paid and often are donating more than just their time and travel expenses. So we created an endowed scholarship program that is need AND merit based and gives an avenue for those who really can't afford the training to be able to attend. We now can offer several scholarships that cover half the cost of the seminar to those the committee feels deserve it most. As the endowment grows we have offered more scholarships.

FWIW, the first year I took the training, 1992, the seminar cost was $190 with the meal plan and $120 without, and I couldn't afford the meal plan so I ate ramen and PBJ the entire week and had an absolute blast. I was sitting in class with professional rescuers who were paid to be there and they spent most of the week acting bored and superior, in spite of the fact their skills didn't warrant it.

Every walk of life you find those with nose in the air. They will be humbled with failure at some point as they did not pay attention.

I used to be in charge of in house training at the largest (at the time) HVAC co. in Marion county. Our pay increase program was based on success. High call back ratios kept you at hire in rate. Low ratios automatically raised pay.
Those who had a high call back ratio were required to attend. Others volunteered. The weekly evening class had pizza and soft drinks provided and I volunteered my time to better our crew.The most problem attendees were the ones with the high ratio's. They felt snubbed. Even when they realized the class concerned issues with their skill sets.
A few came around and learned/improved. The rest went on to other areas of employment.

Human nature is hard to figure out.