Dear trainers: The cost of the NRA *Basic* Pistol course is too damn high!

[bingley]

Call someone a "poor" enough times, you're bound to offend them.

Why should one be offended at that any more than at being called "rich"? Having money or not having money is no reflection on your virtue, which is the only thing of real worth. Poverty, however, does really limit your options in life, and that often includes defensive options. Also, many people are foolish enough to judge a man by his income, and so the fools won't have respect for you.

I do have a word for someone who buys guns for purposes other than collecting, has no knowledge of gun handling, and doesn't intend on acquiring that knowledge even when he can easily afford it: irresponsible.

 

[VERT]

Cost vs benefit. When someone reads an offer such as this, all they see is "intro to practical handgun" and $25. Their train of thought will be:

So, what exactly is "intro to practical handgun?" Is this like an NRA basic course? Will we be wasting time learning about firearms maintenance, safe storage, etc.? Will we be learning something new or just the same old stuff I can find everywhere with a different explanation to it? Is that information worth $25 and whatever it will keep me from by devoting to those 6 hours of training?

Not trying to give you a hard time at all. Just putting the typical thoughts out there which people will have and how they typically weigh purchase decisions for people to learn from/discuss here. It's all a cost vs reward decision for most people.

What do people want this offer to be? The OP talked about Basic Pistol which is safety, terminology, safe storage and such. But I am all for moving into a basic gun handling course. Of course eveybodies definition of Basic and Intro is different. To me mastering fundamental marksmanship is the first step. Any "class" I teach will start with a safety discussion.

 

[lovemachine]

I also roll my eyes at the guys that buy all the whiz-bang Jeep stuff, and then immediately get their mall-crawler stuck. Spend some effort learning to use what you have.

Is that a knock at me?

 

[printcraft]

Is that a knock at me?

Although you did come to mind...........

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Why should one be offended at that any more than at being called "rich"? Having money or not having money is no reflection on your virtue, which is the only thing of real worth. Poverty, however, does really limit your options in life, and that often includes defensive options. Also, many people are foolish enough to judge a man by his income, and so the fools won't have respect for you.

I do have a word for someone who buys guns for purposes other than collecting, has no knowledge of gun handling, and doesn't intend on acquiring that knowledge even when he can easily afford it: irresponsible.

Yes, "poor" is an insult where I come from.

Regarding your last paragraph - Are you referring to those that take classes, and those that do not? It's quite easy to have an expert knowledge of everything in regards to guns without classes. The internet is a wonderful thing, as well as regular practice.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

*SIGH*

We charge $150, and provide (AT NO EXTRA CHARGE) all of the FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, SAFETY SUPPLIES, TARGETS, TARGET STANDS & STICKS, LASER PISTOLS, INSURANCE, TRAILER, CLASSROOM, PROJECTOR, COMPUTER, PRINTER, PAPER, MONITOR, WATER COOLER, CHAIRS, TABLES, PENS, SNAP CAPS OF ALL CALIBERS, BLUE GUNS, COFFEE MAKER & SUPPLIES, $13 per person book packs, (mandatory) etc.

All of the kit guns have to be cleaned and maintained: Glock, Springfield, Bersa, Taurus, S&W x 2, Walther, Sig, & GSG.

Part of the instructor course is an exercise where the students have to figure out what it costs to run a course. Nobody comes up with less than $125 and if the do they have grossly overlooked something.

I have $4000+ in all of my instructor ratings, and pay my instructors well.

My bill for BOOK PACKS ALONE last year was $13,000!

I appreciate your frustration. Now you have a taste of mine and a little balance. Perhaps you could change your title to I CAN'T AFFORD TRAINING rather than TRAINING COST IS TOO %&#$ HIGH. Big difference. In mocking the curriculum you make your point moot. If all we cover is "an 8-hour this is the end the ouchy things we call bullets come from" *BASIC* pistol class" why do you care what we charge? You are clearly an expert and can learn nothing from such a waste of time.

Having never met me and having no idea of my financial situation, your comments I highlighted in orange are baseless assumptions that frankly do not add anything constructive to our discussion...

At no point in my OP did I indicate that *I* couldn't afford it, so No, Sir, I won't be changing the title. I think the NRA Basic Pistol Class should be less than $100, subsidized by the NRA if need be (I like Kirk's tax deduction idea as well) as a way to allow/encourage more people to get training without .gov making it a mandate. That is why I care what is being charged. The more trained responsible gun owners there are, the less influence the gun-grabbers can have in trying to spread their lies about guns & gun owners, so it is in our interest to have as many at least basically trained, responsible gun-owners as possible, wouldn't you agree?
Regarding being an "expert", I *did* in fact qualify as a Rifle Expert multiple times while part of this really cool gun club called the United States Marine Corps. However, I didn't get to qualify on the pistol (only fam fired and had some training with Marines that were assigned to the Presidential Protective Detail) due to my MOS. So, even though I can usually hit what I'm aiming at with a pistol, I am sure there are probably a few things I could in fact pick up from a basic class to improve my static paper punching skills, thus the snide and frankly unprofessional remark about my "expertise" was uncalled for...

Be that as it may, as one of the prominent trainers teaching this class, I appreciate your reply, Mr DeWitt, and my original post should not have been perceived as a personal attack on you, or your operation, sir. I am simply of the opinion that $100+ for the NRA Basic Pistol class is too high, and your insight as to what may be driving that cost is insightful.

 

[dmarsh8]

Our range holds a basic course that isn't necessarily "NRA" but
types of guns are covered. A couple home defense scenarios.
Castle doctrine, 4 rules obviously, etc. They are taught grip,
stance, trigger control. They shoot. 22 first, come back in, go over
center fire info and go back out. There are around 12-14 per class
and 1 experienced volunteer per student 2:1 max. Also a shotgun
demo at the end. My Uncle went through NRA instructor training many years ago
and he heads it up.
$25... sell out every time. Lots of ladies participate.
That's in a nutshell, but it's a great value, small groups,
& affordable, we also have a lot of helpful volunteers though.

Sorry about the format, my phone is freaking stupid!!!

 

[Eagle1 Firearms Aca]

I'll chime in for what it's worth and I have no desire to dissuade the O.P. in either direction of his beliefs-- only putting this info out there for whomever to ponder as they wish.

My position is similar to Randy's at IGS. I'm also an NRA Instructor of multiple disciplines for about 3 1/2 years now and I train regularly with other training professionals within my field-- just so I can stay sharp and up-to-date myself. I've literally spent thousands of $$$$ on my own training over the years as well...

I typically charge $129/student for NRA Basic Pistol, but I do give discounts for couples, families, groups or corporate training et' al. I'm fully insured and I re-invest heavily into my business to give my students the best materials and equipment to learn with I can afford. I also supply all the firearms, ammo, targets, range fees, classroom rental, NRA materials, eyes, ears and any other peripheral stuff the students need to comfortably learn the curriculum. www.eagle1firearmsacademy.com

I even provide laser pistol training indoors before we go onto the firing line, just so I can be sure my students know the relationship of sight alignment and sight picture, as it's easier to teach in a quiet classroom, then on a noisy, active range. Then, after my students prove to me their proficiency in shooting the .22 pistols I provide, I let them shoot a variety of handguns ranging from a .380 mouse gun, 9mm Glock 19, .357 Mag. and a .44 Mag. wheel gun-- just so they have the opportunity to see what type of guns are out there and to have that unique experience to shoot them. Most love it and I provide that ammo for FREE too!

I advertise on Facebook, the radio and on some paper-type marketing to get my name out there and I'm always extending my B2B leads to grow my company as well. It's a lot of work and to date, I'm working at a negative ROI; but it's getting closer to the break-even point each month and well....I just love teaching! To me, it's not really about the money, but rather the enjoyment of teaching someone a life skill that may one day save their life. If it was about the "money", I would have never chose this line of work in the first place...that's for sure!

I'd like to think I give my students real training value for their money-- even if it's a basic course. I do sprinkle in a little bit of "tacticool" moves in there and real-world scenarios for them to think about, so their not only ingesting the over-politically correct NRA curriculum. They seem to learn a lot from each class and I certainly love teaching them something new-- especially to women who usually become better shooters than their male counterparts.

-Phil

 

[eldirector]

Is that a knock at me?

No. Though, now that you mention it.....

Kidding, of course!

As to the OP: I truly do mean priorities, and that is not putting anyone down at all. Heck, I haven't been to the range much for months because of a shift in MY priorities. I'd like to train more and shot more in general. It isn't the price, but the time. I would GLADLY pay the higher end of the spectrum for a quality instructor and quality time. TIME is my scarce resource. So, if I'm going to spend a DIME on most anything, I'd better get more than a dime in return.

 

[lovemachine]

Something that I have noticed in the last year...

A lot of the members here that have complained about the "high" cost of training, have claimed they have more important priorities in their life.

These are the same members that have rushed to buy the M&P Shield when it first came out. Some of them are members who rushed out and bought Ar15's when the "assault rifle" ban scare was going on.

That makes me laugh.


Priorities. Here's something to think about. How many guns do you NEED? Think about that. Here's a list of firearms I think everyone needs in an average household.

1. A carry/HD pistol
2. Shotgun
3. Rifle
4. Another pistol for backup or arm your wife when she's home alone. This is considered nice to have

If you have more than the above list, sell a gun. And take a quality training class.

I have personally done that. More than once.

Training is more important than a firearm collection.

And this is coming from someone who used to live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[GIJEW]

I think one of the reasons for the discrepancy in costs ($25 vs $150) and the accompanying sticker shock, is that on the one hand there are individuals running schools that have to make a profit to exist and on the other there private clubs that run these classes as volunteers. The only real overhead they have are training packets/text books and ammo--if the student doesn't bring their own. The clubs already as a matter of course have insurance to cover basic operation.

 

[cedartop]

Something that I have noticed in the last year...

A lot of the members here that have complained about the "high" cost of training, have claimed they have more important priorities in their life.

These are the same members that have rushed to buy the M&P Shield when it first came out. Some of them are members who rushed out and bought Ar15's when the "assault rifle" ban scare was going on.

That makes me laugh.


Priorities. Here's something to think about. How many guns do you NEED? Think about that. Here's a list of firearms I think everyone needs in an average household.

1. A carry/HD pistol
2. Shotgun
3. Rifle
4. Another pistol for backup or arm your wife when she's home alone. This is considered nice to have

If you have more than the above list, sell a gun. And take a quality training class.

I have personally done that. More than once.

Training is more important than a firearm collection.

And this is coming from someone who used to live paycheck to paycheck.

Amurica is not about need, it is about want my friend.

btw, totally agree with your post, but of course I am one of those evil guys who make money off of teaching people. (Ya right.)

 

[lovemachine]

Amurica is not about need, it is about want my friend.

btw, totally agree with your post, but of course I am one of those evil guys who make money off of teaching people. (Ya right.)

You'll get some of my money sometime.

 

[the1kidd03]

Amurica is not about need, it is about want my friend.

btw, totally agree with your post, but of course I am one of those evil guys who make money off of teaching people. (Ya right.)

You don't really count though.

Seriously though, you teach a content level that is well beyond what the OP is referencing. Thus, worthy of the higher prices.

 

[VERT]

Amurica is not about need, it is about want my friend.

btw, totally agree with your post, but of course I am one of those evil guys who make money off of teaching people. (Ya right.)

And yet I don't hold that against you. Being a little evil is OK. The professional firearms trainers/schools provide a service and I for one am glad they exist. There just seems to be a lot of them popping up right now.

 

[the1kidd03]

What do people want this offer to be? The OP talked about Basic Pistol which is safety, terminology, safe storage and such. But I am all for moving into a basic gun handling course. Of course eveybodies definition of Basic and Intro is different. To me mastering fundamental marksmanship is the first step. Any "class" I teach will start with a safety discussion.

I have no doubts in your teachings or curriculum. I was merely expressing the common thoughts that people may have when looking at training. At an introductory level such as the OP is referencing, the lower, the better quite honestly.

If for no other reason than specifically the social responsibility aspect which he's hinting at in getting people the basic level of safe knowledge needed to reduce incidents which get used against gun owners.

 

[VERT]

You don't really count though.

Seriously though, you teach a content level that is well beyond what the OP is referencing. Thus, worthy of the higher prices.

Correct the OP is addressing the cost vs benefit of "basic" courses. This has been discussed on INGO before. Cedartop is offering a higher value product, or rather what some people would consider to be higher value.

 

[the1kidd03]

Correct the OP is addressing the cost vs benefit of "basic" courses. This has been discussed on INGO before. Cedartop is offering a higher value product, or rather what some people would consider to be higher value.

Higher value and higher risk. But, that validates higher costs/prices too.

 

[tatic05]

I have a auestion about training vs cost. what if you are looking to train with high profile trainers? Do you or anyone think it is "fair" to charge 7-800 for a Travis Haley or Costa classes? Just a defensive handgun 1 or carbine 1 class. Yes they are usually over two days but thats still 3-400. Are they providing better training thats worth that? Do you think Yeager deserves his 400 or something, what about range time? When you consider gas and travel expenses it could be closer to 200 or more for a basic NRA class.

I have trained some not as much as I would have liked but I still got close to 20 hours in 2013. I understand the OP when he feels basic should be less to encourage people more to get involved and have at least some training. I agree with that but I would also pay my trainer a fair amount since they need to make a living too.

 

[VERT]

High profile trainers can get more for their services. That is the power of marketing and building a resume.