Dallas Protest, Shots Fired

[churchmouse]

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

"Dead isn't dead," the why and who did it, are very important.

Not to the dead person. It's important for establishing the level of punishment. It doesn't matter if the guy was a drug dealer shooting up the wrong house, a racist cop, or a racist dude shooting up a demonstration--the person(s) are dead. Willful or premeditated, no matter the impetus should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[Kutnupe14]

See my sig, I'm trying not to be so harsh.... But there are limits, lol

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not to the dead person. It's important for establishing the level of punishment. It doesn't matter if the guy was a drug dealer shooting up the wrong house, a racist cop, or a racist dude shooting up a demonstration--the person(s) are dead. Willful or premeditated, no matter the impetus should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Here's the issue. I don't think most of the officers involved in this stuff are racist, or even bad. They are however making bad decisions based on perception and poor training. So when a person ends up dead because of such, noting that there's no criminal intent sought, then we, as a society should ask why is this occurring.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Here's the issue. I don't think most of the officers involved in this stuff are racist, or even bad. They are however making bad decisions based on perception and poor training. So when a person ends up dead because of such, noting that there's no criminal intent sought, then we, as a society should ask why is this occurring.

We certainly should. But here's the real issue. If we're truly concerned about the untimely and violent deaths of black people, the numbers lie elsewhere. Even if we stopped every incident where some guy is shot going to get his ID or for selling "loosies", the needle wouldn't even budge on the shear number or percentages of black folks getting killed.

We're propping up and chasing after mole hills when there are mountains that need to be climbed.

 

[MontereyC6]

See my sig, I'm trying not to be so harsh.... But there are limits, lol

CM isn't the only mod in here, and we all have varying "opinions" on how to mod.Just sayin.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I brought up black on black crime, specifically murders, after it was essentially asked why are black people concerned about police shooting them, THE POLICE, when they don't seem to be all that concerned about other black criminals shooting them. On its face, that seems like an incredibly ridiculous and intellectually dishonest question. "Why would people have issue with those that uphold the law shooting them, when those who ignore the law do it too?" I mean can some one really be so out of touch to not understand the difference?

Rate of solved cases falls for IMPD as Indy?s murder rate rises | Fox 59

“I may have circumstantial evidence to show that he was there but the only person that know that he shot you is you, and if you don’t come forward and tell me he shot you, than I don’t have enough to put him in jail,” said Sgt. Burgess Ricks who then stands by to watch family members and critics question IMPD’s commitment to finding all murderers in the same time frame as it took to solve the Blackburn case.“The people who are out there rallying and saying those things on camera know that we know that’s just talk and in reality, ‘You’re not helping us and you’re not going to help us,’” he said.
Unlike a homicide detective, Ricks investigates cases where the victims survive and yet still refuse to help police find their attackers.
“Even if they have a bullet, even if they’re blind, even if they’re crippled and they know they’re going to be crippled after the doctor told them they were going to be crippled, they will not cooperate,” said Ricks who estimates 50 percent of his victims won’t talk. “Breaking that street code of silence is very very hard nowadays.”

Re-posted with permission:

Here's the cold truth you won't hear from BLM.

The reasons why can be debated until the servers crash from lack of maintenance, but the present fact is this; the drug trade and criminal activities thereof is integral to the modern black culture.

In the black community packing a Beretta doesn't mean you're a law abiding person. It means you're in The Game. Folks raised in that world abide by the rules of that trade, not the rules of society as understood elsewhere. If you're a young black kid who reads math books and studies you are mocked as a sellout loser. Because "real black people" act like Alton , robbing and dealing and fighting cops.

The situation is beyond heartbreaking. It's worse to me then Slavery , frankly. Slavery was a fairly obvious blight on African Amercians and the American spirit as a whole, which is why fighting it was both necessary and painful.

This? It's like slavery of the mind. I'm a black man with a business degree, no kids out of wedlock and no record. In the place I came from that makes me Bill ****ing Gates. Damn near all of my peers from school who gave me noise for watching Space Shuttle launches instead of Kanye West videos are in jail, dead, or just now getting their lives straight after losing two decades to bull**** on the street. Ethnic women in my old neighborhood don't even bother hiding that I'm now "prime marriage material" for their educated daughters, who have thugs and criminals or dads with stacked child support bills to choose from for husbands.

It's economic and social slavery , an entire culture of people trapped into wasting their lives for a profit machine that really doesn't give a damn about them. Being laid off from HP might feel dehumanizing .
Being laid off for the drug game is a much more literal problem: and it leaves wrecked lives in the process.

Unfortunately , a lot of "elected" leaders profit from this bull****, just like they did centuries ago from slavery. Dead fathers, dead teenagers, kids raised to repeat their parents mistakes in the name of The Game, and dead cops killed because they dared give a damn. All of that blood and death , over money and power. All of it flowing to the top, so folks like Hillary Clinton can break the law and laugh at the consequences.

Folks in urban governments better hope I don't go to law school and join the Justice Department as a prosecutor. Leland Yee would have plenty of company on his cell block by the time I got done.

So, there's a certain irony in calling it "black lives matter". I'm not sure what you don't get, and not sure why you seem to take things I say and spiral them up to implications I never made.

 

[indiucky]

"Dead isn't dead,"

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Is your assertion, that all these people shot are gang members, thieves, drug addicts/dealers? Is that in and of itself a reason for being shot? Shouldn't the circumstances dictate whether a person is killed by police rather than simply whatever unsavory lifestyle they lead? It they are a threat, a legitimate threat, END them. I don't have an issue with that, but if one chooses to go that route, be consistent in the application. And that's the crux of the argument, how, when, and to whom such force is applied. To many there seems to be a disparity:

Guy shot in the back running away, guy shot at a gas station getting his ID, guy getting choked out for selling cigarettes, legal carrier shot while retrieving his ID, guy shot standing in a apartment stairwell, guy shot in his apartment because he wouldn't open a door for a welfare check, guy shot 41 time, 19 hits, guy shot when his pill bottle is mistaken for a gun, guy shot carrying a pellet gun in Wal-Mart, woman shot as she opened door for police because they said she had a gun (she didn't), football player shot after knocking on door after an accident asking for help, man shot by police as he fled from the store he worked at which had been robbed, man run over by police car as he fled for stealing paving stones, autistic man approaches police reaches into his waistband shot because they thought he was reaching for a gun, man shot face down at a subway station, man shot face down during a drug apprehension, man shot after he startled officer when he opened a rooftop door.....and the list goes on and on and on.

Given the way the media seizes upon these types of instances, and how they are played over and over, how can one not wonder? I think, given the small sample of instances I listed above, it's completely acceptable to ask "are white people treated the same way?"

Kut, I'm late to this, but you raise some questions that have always concerned me... a number of the instances you raise, the officer is/was charged (shot in the back running away, stairwell, football player - charged and exonerated, etc). Of the others, some I'm aware of the details, others I'm not. What confounds me is the portrayal (often completely false) of the events, much like the "Hands up, don't shoot", which to me is nothing but a lie, an utterly fictional narrative.

Let me choose one that you mentioned, "football player shot after knocking on door after an accident asking for help".

This is a fictional narrative.

The football player crashed his car, late at night and walked to the nearest house, presumably to ask for help. But then, why did he try to kick in the door (I saw the pictures, dented in with bare feet, he left his shoes in the crashed car) screaming obscenities and continue to do so with the home alarm system blaring? Only departing when the homeowner yelled that the police were on the way? (captured on her 911 call) And, knowing all of this, when the police arrived, why did he instantly (within seconds) tackle an officer who had his handgun drawn (per policy)? I saw the video, he looked just like a secondary defense man (he was) stepping into a play on the football field.

He didn't get shot for "knocking on a door asking for help".

He got shot for trying to kick in someone's door in the middle of the night and then attempting to tackle a responding police officer, who had his gun drawn, within seconds of the police arriving.

To me, this is where the disconnect is... these fictional narratives. If the problem is so bad (I'm not saying it isn't), then why all of the fictitious narratives? Why all of the made up BS? Someone, or some organization, like BLM, flat out lies to me with "hands up, don't shoot", I am very skeptical of anything they say.

For me, it makes it incredibly difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[KG1]

Is'nt it fun taking a browbeating on every point that you can ever possibly try to make?

 

[bwframe]

Is'nt it fun taking a browbeating on every point that you can ever possibly try to make?

Some learn from this sort of thing, some don't.

Normally, when everyone else is wrong...

 

[Denny347]

While one may argue that BLM does not condone violence, many of their rallies turn that way. You fan the flames, don't be surprised when an amber strays and burns the house down. If you do not want it to spread, you douse ALL the flames.
Agitators hurl rocks at Phoenix police, chant 'we should shoot you' - The American MirrorThe American Mirror

 

[cbhausen]

Kut, I'm late to this, but you raise some questions that have always concerned me... a number of the instances you raise, the officer is/was charged (shot in the back running away, stairwell, football player - charged and exonerated, etc). Of the others, some I'm aware of the details, others I'm not. What confounds me is the portrayal (often completely false) of the events, much like the "Hands up, don't shoot", which to me is nothing but a lie, an utterly fictional narrative.

Let me choose one that you mentioned, "football player shot after knocking on door after an accident asking for help".

This is a fictional narrative.

The football player crashed his car, late at night and walked to the nearest house, presumably to ask for help. But then, why did he try to kick in the door (I saw the pictures, dented in with bare feet, he left his shoes in the crashed car) screaming obscenities and continue to do so with the home alarm system blaring? Only departing when the homeowner yelled that the police were on the way? (captured on her 911 call) And, knowing all of this, when the police arrived, why did he instantly (within seconds) tackle an officer who had his handgun drawn (per policy)? I saw the video, he looked just like a secondary defense man (he was) stepping into a play on the football field.

He didn't get shot for "knocking on a door asking for help".

He got shot for trying to kick in someone's door in the middle of the night and then attempting to tackle a responding police officer, who had his gun drawn, within seconds of the police arriving.

To me, this is where the disconnect is... these fictional narratives. If the problem is so bad (I'm not saying it isn't), then why all of the fictitious narratives? Why all of the made up BS? Someone, or some organization, like BLM, flat out lies to me with "hands up, don't shoot", I am very skeptical of anything they say.

For me, it makes it incredibly difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

SPOT ON. Repped.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Is'nt it fun taking a browbeating on every point that you can ever possibly try to make?

I, for one, am trying to understand. That is the only way to make progress.

Perhaps, as a white guy, it's not possible to understand from a person of color's perspective.

But, this is too important not to try.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Let me choose one that you mentioned, "football player shot after knocking on door after an accident asking for help".

This is a fictional narrative.

The football player crashed his car, late at night and walked to the nearest house, presumably to ask for help. But then, why did he try to kick in the door (I saw the pictures, dented in with bare feet, he left his shoes in the crashed car) screaming obscenities and continue to do so with the home alarm system blaring? Only departing when the homeowner yelled that the police were on the way? (captured on her 911 call) And, knowing all of this, when the police arrived, why did he instantly (within seconds) tackle an officer who had his handgun drawn (per policy)? I saw the video, he looked just like a secondary defense man (he was) stepping into a play on the football field.

He didn't get shot for "knocking on a door asking for help".

He got shot for trying to kick in someone's door in the middle of the night and then attempting to tackle a responding police officer, who had his gun drawn, within seconds of the police arriving.

To me, this is where the disconnect is... these fictional narratives. If the problem is so bad (I'm not saying it isn't), then why all of the fictitious narratives? Why all of the made up BS? Someone, or some organization, like BLM, flat out lies to me with "hands up, don't shoot", I am very skeptical of anything they say.

For me, it makes it incredibly difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

There's some noteworthy things you got wrong, or didn't mention, about the above. Yes the football player did kick the door. What you didn't mention, is that the resident, actually opened the door, and upon seeing the man, she quickly closed it. So it begs the question, if he was trying to force entry, why didn't he do so when the door was initially opened? Was his kicking of the door an attempt to gain entry or frustration?

As for attempting to tackle, that's also open to debate, as the investigation uncovered that he was shot 4 times before he fell on the shooting officer.

This article sums up story pretty well.
Jonathan Ferrell shooting: How Charlotte avoided Ferguson?s fate.

but perhaps that is a bad example, I was going off the top of my head.

 

[Tombs]

There's no blood on the hands of BLM, concerning this instance.

I guess Charles Manson is innocent too in that case? Don't you agree?

It's a stretch, but when you continually brainwash followers to ignore reality, exaggerate situations out of control, and point them towards an "enemy," there's always going to be a fringe element who will actually act on it.

Further more, combine this with support from the White House and the political manipulating elites. There's an agenda, and it's anything but positive, it's extremely harmful for the black community as well as everyone else.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

look at this idiot

 

[Kutnupe14]

I, for one, am trying to understand. That is the only way to make progress.

Perhaps, as a white guy, it's not possible to understand from a person of color's perspective.

But, this is too important not to try.

and I can appreciate that a million time over than cute comments of dismissal.

 

[printcraft]

look at this idiot

Yep, we may never know his motives even though he said he wanted to kill (omitted) people and especially (omitted).
He said he was inspired by the (omitted) movement.

 

[Rookie]

"Was his kicking of the door... "

Does it matter? If someone is kicking my door (and it really doesn't matter if I opened it and then shut it), I'm not going to wonder why he's kicking my door in.