Coronovirus III

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    jamil

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    Jul 17, 2011
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    “When the State tells you it's safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge
    but dangerous to go and buy a flower, it's not about your health.

    Well, the state isn't saying it's safe to go to Home Depot. They're saying that since Home Depot sells items that are considered necessary, and flower shops don't really sell anything that's necessary, that you may shop at Home Depot, but not a flower shop. With such simple rules, they are inconsistent. Restaurants are a necessity because people need food, and as long as they operate within the rules, it's safer. But, ice cream is not a necessity (unless it's Graeter's double chocolate chunk). Ice Cream shops, because they're considered restaurants, may be open under the same rules as any restaurant, even though they only sell deserts, which are not necessary (notwithstanding Graeter's double chocolate chunk).

    When the State shuts down millions of private businesses
    but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it's not about your health.

    This is not true. Many government offices are shut down, and many government employees are furloughed too.

    When the State prevents you from buying cucumber seeds because it's dangerous,
    but allows in person lottery ticket sales, it's not about your health.


    I think this one is about the Michigan executive order. It did not ban the sale of seeds. Part of the executive order says that certain areas of stores > 50K sq ft must close off certain departments in their stores, basically because it gives people fewer reasons to have lots of people there. Lawn and Garden section was one of the areas. You can still get seeds elsewhere, so it's overly hyperbolic to say they banned seeds. The point about lottery tickets is pretty good though. It doesn't look good to close some things off and not that. They obviously want ticket sales to continue because that's about the money.

    When the State tells you it's dangerous to go golf alone, fish alone or be in a motor boat alone,
    but the Governor can get his stage make up done, and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it's not about your health.


    The golfing one is more understandable I guess. In some states you can't just go for a drive with your family. That's ridiculous. But, it's not proof of the assertions implied by these statements.

    When the state puts you IN a jail cell for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous
    but let’s criminals OUT of jail cells for their health- It’s not about YOUR health!


    Obviously it's ridiculous to jail people for that, and I'm not sure that there wasn't another legitimate reason the woman was charged with neglect, but let's say it was only about that. It's not exactly proof that the rule isn't about health. It's more of an overzealous belief that people are harming people for just going to the ***damn park!

    When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a doctor of chiropractic or physical therapy treatments
    yet deems a liquor store essential- It’s not about your health!


    Well. C'mon. It's a chiroquackter, for **** sake. No, seriously this is a problem. People still need these services which are considered unnecessary. Set up procedures and policies to help mitigate spreading this as much as you can, but if providers are willing to provide the stuff, and people are willing to go, I think it's ridiculous to shut that down. But, it's not evidence that it wasn't done for reasons other than health.

    When the State lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store
    but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.

    These aren't connected. You can go to the grocery store or hardware store because those places have things you need, and getting everything on line is not always practical. Voting places are ideal for spreading disease. Given the choice between voting in a booth in person and voting by mail, I'd mail in my ballot rather than going to the polls. Of course, polls could be made less great at spreading disease. Anyway, there's no connection between these two supposed dichotomies that should logically conclude with, "it's not about your health".

    WAKE UP PEOPLE — If you think this is all about your health you’re mistaken!
    Please open your eyes! Stop being lead like blind sheep.”

    And this is probably the most retarded point of all. That people don't agree on these points doesn't logically conclude with, "therefore you are asleep."

    My problem with the points presented in the quotes, stems mostly from the inaccuracies and the poor logic used. There's a better point to be made than the one I think it's trying to make. They're trying to say these lock-down policies aren't about health, but about something else, presumably, a power grab. That's mostly unsubstantiated :tinfoil: bull**** at this point. I'm not saying it's definitely not true, but I am saying the case has not been made that it is true. But I get it. The more they try to lock down, it sure feels like there must be some other motive.

    I think the better point to make would be that it's not better for society to prioritize safety over freedom to the extent that we have. We're getting way too used to accepting just any restrictions, without demanding justification and accountability.
     

    HoughMade

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    Oct 24, 2012
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    The most densely populated of those 7 states is Arkansas which has less than 1/3 the population density of Indiana. Several of the states have 1/10th the population density.

    Not comparable in the least

    None of those states remained completely open and no matter what they call their measures, some are tough to distinguish from what Indiana did. Look at these websites...if you want truth...and CNN is an interesting place to try to find it, and tell be ANY of those states "stayed open".

    https://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/programs-services/topics/novel-coronavirus

    https://coronavirus.iowa.gov/pages/proclamations

    COVID-19 Nebraska Guidance Documents (reopening guidelines? I thought the never closed.)

    https://ndresponse.gov/covid-19-resources/covid-19-business-and-employer-resources/nd-smart-restart (Hey, ND, how do you have a "smart restart" if you never stopped?)

    https://doh.sd.gov/documents/COVID19/COVID_SDPlan_BackToNormal.pdf (Wait, back to normal plan? I thought...)

    https://coronavirus.utah.gov/

    https://health.wyo.gov/publichealth...vel-coronavirus/covid-19-orders-and-guidance/

    Maybe these governors were just smart enough to not call their measures a "stay at home" order.
     

    T.Lex

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    Mar 30, 2011
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    Holcomb should be judged by what he did for Indiana. That's the only state that elected him governor.

    In my book, he did better than the federal officials, and they did pretty good overall.

    I may not agree with every decision he made when he made it, but he's been articulate and deferential to SMEs about the process. Can't ask for much more than that in this situation.
     

    HoughMade

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    Holcomb should be judged by what he did for Indiana. That's the only state that elected him governor.

    In my book, he did better than the federal officials, and they did pretty good overall.

    I may not agree with every decision he made when he made it, but he's been articulate and deferential to SMEs about the process. Can't ask for much more than that in this situation.

    This.
     

    jamil

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    Jul 17, 2011
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    Even money we are back in " lockdown " by month end. I think infection numbers will climb and panic sets in.

    To get herd immunity you have to get people infected.

    Ok rant over. So sick of this crap.

    People are getting infected. And it's probably a hell of a lot more than those who tested positive. Of course the official count of people infected will climb as our capacity to test increases. I think the numbers make people panic, and maybe it would help if health officials tell the state officials, the press, and the people that hey, we're likely to see a lot more positives as we increase our rate of testing. Don't go ape**** when you see higher number of cases.

    The right question would be is the capacity of medical facilities strained? Also, are we seeing spikes in deaths? The people who have it, have it, regardless if we're testing them or not. And the number of people who die from it is fairly proportional to the number of people who have it. So the number of positives is mostly meaningless. If the deaths spiked, that likely means that the number of people who had it (not just those who were tested) also spiked a couple of weeks ago or so.
     

    jamil

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    Infection totals will rise because we are testing more people. The rate may well drop...and/or we will have a better idea of the asymptomatic population.

    The number of positive tests, or percentage, was never a reliable metric for much both due to the small percentage of the population tested and the selective nature of who got tested.

    The state is looking more towards hospitalizations, which is a better metric because it relates to medical resource use and is a much more reliable number...and the governor said that they fully expect the rate to rise. The questions is how much and how quickly.

    Eh. Guess I should read on a bit before posting. Had I seen this I wouldn't have thought I needed to post what I did.
     

    jamil

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    When they say "high blood pressure" does that include those that are controlling it with medications? I assume it does but wanted to confirm if that was the case...

    Also there were links to the most popular blood pressure medications as making them susceptible to C-19, anyone see any further updates on this?

    Wish I could find the source again. It said something about that it may be more about circulatory problems than specific overall preconditions. People who have high blood pressure and diabetes and heart problems and overweight, pretty much the preconditions they're talking about, have issues with circulation.

    Best advice I think I've heard is, if you're not very active, GET ACTIVE! Since this has started I've tried to be as active as a person with a desk job can be. I'm also looking at buying a standing desk. Standing at a desk isn't a lot better than sitting at a desk, but it's still better.
     

    jamil

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    I’ve been saying the same thing. Total infected has never been a good statistic until/unless we literally are testing everyone.

    Exactly. Well, randomized testing in a way that represents the population, would give a pretty good idea of actual infection rates. And it does not require testing everyone. Speaking of testing everyone, you send in your swab, then the government gets your dna.

    :tinfoil:

    Just kidding.




    No I'm not.




    Or am I?
     

    jamil

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    Holcomb should be judged by what he did for Indiana. That's the only state that elected him governor.

    In my book, he did better than the federal officials, and they did pretty good overall.

    I may not agree with every decision he made when he made it, but he's been articulate and deferential to SMEs about the process. Can't ask for much more than that in this situation.

    Well, yeah. Maybe. But he's still a schmuck.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Mar 22, 2011
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    Mitchell
    Best advice I think I've heard is, if you're not very active, GET ACTIVE! Since this has started I've tried to be as active as a person with a desk job can be. I'm also looking at buying a standing desk. Standing at a desk isn't a lot better than sitting at a desk, but it's still better.

    About 18 months ago, I was 153 pounds heavier than I am today. My blood pressure was going up (as well as my medication to try and control it). My A1C number was elevated. Today... no BP medication at all, A1C number is “normal”, total cholesterol is good. When I saw the news of those “cormobidities” awhile back, I thought “man, I picked a good time to get serious about getting back into ‘shape’”. :D
     

    JettaKnight

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    By the time October/November rolls around, maybe we will begin to start to see the results of what this lock down has done to us economically?

    How many jobs/careers have been lost for the foreseeable future and permanently?

    What kind of bazaar social issues and crime will be the result of this [STRIKE]over-[/STRIKE]reaction to the pandemic?

    What has this done economically to our healthcare industry?

    I'm not sure we'll be having any crowded open markets any time soon.
    270px-Bazaar_de_Teher%C3%A1n%2C_Teher%C3%A1n%2C_Ir%C3%A1n%2C_2016-09-17%2C_DD_45.jpg


    And really, no one has enough data to say if it's an over-reaction or an under-reaction.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    I have the news on and just moments ago, one of the doctors was talking about the effectiveness of the social distancing strategies. Interestingly, he noted that we have not seen the decline in numbers the experts had told us we’d see by now it we shut everything down. I wish I’d taken notes but the gist I got from his comments is that while the measures may have helped, continuing them will be of diminishing return.
     

    Alpo

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    Sep 23, 2014
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    Holcomb should be judged by what he did for Indiana. That's the only state that elected him governor.

    In my book, he did better than the federal officials, and they did pretty good overall.

    I may not agree with every decision he made when he made it, but he's been articulate and deferential to SMEs about the process. Can't ask for much more than that in this situation.

    I haven't seen many of his pressers, but what I did see looked professional, calm and with no criticisms of the press, Geo Bush, or Joe & Mika.

    Basically, head and shoulders above anything Trump has done in a presser.
     

    Alpo

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    Wish I could find the source again. It said something about that it may be more about circulatory problems than specific overall preconditions. People who have high blood pressure and diabetes and heart problems and overweight, pretty much the preconditions they're talking about, have issues with circulation.

    Best advice I think I've heard is, if you're not very active, GET ACTIVE! Since this has started I've tried to be as active as a person with a desk job can be. I'm also looking at buying a standing desk. Standing at a desk isn't a lot better than sitting at a desk, but it's still better.

    No. That isn't correct.

    The problem seems to be the link between ACE receptors and the virus, and the increased level of AC enzymes in the person's system through the use of ACE inhibitors for bp control. Lisinopril and the equivalents were cited early.

    I haven't seen recent updates.
     

    Doug

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    I guess this is the logic: not that many people died, so we really didn't need to do all that staying home and distancing.
    Of course, this totally ignores the effects of staying home and distancing.

    Most post-modernists believe truth is relative to your point of view. And, many people, like Joe Biden, choose truth over facts.
     
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