Coronovirus III

[Alpo]

Oh, they are pretty good at slowing the transmission of droplets. That's why I don't go near anyone if I have a cough.

And, frankly, I don't go out that much in any event.

When I went to the butcher's shop, one employee was wearing a mask. One other customer and most of the employees were not. The guy working on autos at the end of the block is not.

Other than lighter traffic and no kids in the the autism center across the way...looks pretty normal around here.

 

[Mongo59]

Thinking a simple mask will prevent anything airborne is like thinking you can drain the ocean with a tea strainer. It gives you the feeling you are 'doing something' but in the end has no effect on the outcome.

A mask in the absence of sterile technique is just something for others to look at...

 

[dusty88]

We could have been more prepared, sure, but this comment is simply absurd on its face.

So tell me what the US did to prepare for this pandemic in January? By this time the virus was known to the world. Even in February we still had denial at the highest level.

The US testing (percapita) just caught up this week with other countries.

 

[Mongo59]

The Corona virus has been around for a long long time, the Covid-19 strain is the one particular strain that is of interest right now.

I have been wondering how many of these "I have had it but didn't have any symptoms" results could be the detection of antibodies to other forms of the Corona virus.

Some of the simple reagent tests could be like ordering an alternator for a Dodge diesel pickup and getting a generator for a Chevy Corvair, they may be similar but not the same...

 

[dusty88]

The Corona virus has been around for a long long time, the Covid-19 strain is the one particular strain that is of interest right now.

I have been wondering how many of these "I have had it but didn't have any symptoms" results could be the detection of antibodies to other forms of the Corona virus.

Some of the simple reagent tests could be like ordering an alternator for a Dodge diesel pickup and getting a generator for a Chevy Corvair, they may be similar but not the same...

Yep. I hope someone has developed a test with high specificity.

 

[dusty88]

This may be very helpful: saliva testing for current.. including pre-symptomatic... infection.

It not only looks like it might be more accurate than the current swabbing technique, but will be much faster and won't require healthcare workers to wear extensive PPE to administer the test

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20067835v1#disqus_thread

 

[jamil]

Then you definitely want a milquetoast leader, not a guy that has ideas. A great CEO can challenge those hired to explain themselves and challenge them to answer the questions of common sense types. The guy clearly wants to find solutions that the team is not ready to explain. If it was easy there would be "experts" that had all the correct answers, they clearly do not. Their models have failed miserably so. How many times are you going to invest with those demonstrably wrong? He wants answers and is willing to brainstorm in public. What transparency!

I guess we could have someone that just parroted the so called experts...

That’s what you got out of the quoted post? So you don’t think pretty much everyone would want a person with ideas? So it’s down to that exact dichotomy? C’mon man. People can want a president with ideas AND think Trump’s ideas aren’t all that.

 

[Alpo]

That Corona Virus-free tri-tip and saffron was so good last night, I had it for breakfast.

View attachment 86540

 

[jamil]

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I can see that no matter what he does, his supporters just dig in. That's exactly why this pandemic has become politicized

Well, c’mon. There’s some **** going on over on the other side that contributes just as much. Trump or his supporters digging in isn’t exactly why it’s being politicized. It’s not like, oh, but if only the poopyhead Trump supporters would see him as evil as I do the world would be set straight. The world would be set straighter if people cared more about extending their viewpoints to see the important objects from more angles than just one and it’s not only them not doing that.

My own take of it is that Trump read some **** that he didn’t fully understand, and the tried to re-articulate in his own words what he thought he understood. It only demonstrated his lack of understanding. Most people have a filter. “Hmm, I better not try to talk about that because I don’t understand it well enough not to sound like an idiot.” Trump doesn’t have that filter. Is it something worth making a big deal about? Does it really matter? Not really. He’s not, apparently, making any decisions based on that incomplete understanding. And it appears, that regardless of what he says on Twitter or in press conferences, that his decisions are based on his advisors.

Is it worth some deserved ridicule? Sure. Should it consume our souls? No. Have some yuks, poke some fun, and call it a day. More than that IS fueling the divide.

 

[dusty88]

Well, c’mon. There’s some **** going on over on the other side that contributes just as much. Trump or his supporters digging in isn’t exactly why it’s being politicized. It’s not like, oh, but if only the poopyhead Trump supporters would see him as evil as I do the world would be set straight. The world would be set straighter if people cared more about extending their viewpoints to see the important objects from more angles than just one and it’s not only them not doing that.

My own take of it is that Trump read some **** that he didn’t fully understand, and the tried to re-articulate in his own words what he thought he understood. It only demonstrated his lack of understanding. Most people have a filter. “Hmm, I better not try to talk about that because I don’t understand it well enough not to sound like an idiot.” Trump doesn’t have that filter. Is it something worth making a big deal about? Does it really matter? Not really. He’s not, apparently, making any decisions based on that incomplete understanding. And it appears, that regardless of what he says on Twitter or in press conferences, that his decisions are based on his advisors.

Is it worth some deserved ridicule? Sure. Should it consume our souls? No. Have some yuks, poke some fun, and call it a day. More than that IS fueling the divide.

Yes I agree the divide has been building. And I think the reason Trump was elected, and the fact his supporters feel defensive comes from years of many liberals not understanding the other side particularly the rural areas.

 

[MCgrease08]

I'm a strong advocate of personal responsibility

I have also (in the past, several times) said that disease outbreak is one of the few times when personal rights conflict. This is even MORE true now than I had previously imagined. I had previously imagined someone who was a known carrier of a disease and didn't want to be quarantined. Now we have a very difficult reality such that many of us may be asymptomatic carriers.

I think the first step in having this conversation is admitting that personal rights conflict. People have the right to travel, engage in commerce, etc. But they don't have the right to fling germs at other people's respiratory systems and yet we know that is happening, even with totally innocent intentions.

It's somewhat like the fictional scenario if "guns really did go off randomly even when you carry them around in a holster".

This is an excellent point, and one I don't think is being discussed enough. It's the old example of "your rights end at the tip of my nose."

As freedom minded people, I think most of us here tend to hold the belief that if an individual partakes in risky or potentially harmful behavior then that's the choice of the individual ... until it starts to negatively impact us.

I don't think anyone would accept some guy showing up at a public park and randomly firing gun shots into the air, even if none of the bullets hit anyone. We wouldn't say, "oh he's not hurting anyone, so leave him alone." We see and understand that the potential risk of harm to others is much too great, even if the risk to us personally is statistically low.

COVID-19 is similar. Refusing to quarantine or going out while being asymptomatic has the potential risk to kill someone else.

That said, we all accept some amount of risk day-to-day too. We understand someone's bad driving has the potential to kill us, and we accept that. So I'm not arguing that a small potential risk should lead to complete shut down, but it does boil down to a cost benefit analysis. I do think we (INGO) is having that conversation, but I don't see it as much in the world at large.

What I don't really hear anyone discussing is the question of, where do a sick person's rights end and a healthy person's rights begin?

I don't have a good answer, but it's an excellent philosophical discussion.

 

[Dirtebiker]

I have a simple solution for you to keep you safe. Stay home.
I hope you have a job you can work from home though because the government checks are not going to be coming forever.
I will be pissed if they continue this extra $600 a month BS for more than the first 2 months. Get people back to their jobs or get them out to find new ones. Open it all back up.
Some Americans are lazy pieces of crap with no integrity. They know exactly what they are doing. It's called milking it.
Starvation is not a pleasant way to die either. Neither is depression or suicide. This shutdown is a sham.

Yep, how does it make sense to give someone who normally makes $400-500 per week $800-900 on unemployment!? I’m guessing that was the Dems idea? That alone will keep many, many sloths at home much longer than necessary AND cost us taxpayers a fortune!
We have a relative who tried to get laid off by telling his employer that he was afraid of working around others (a construction laborer). His employer set it up to where he could work by himself away from the rest of the company. He quit, signed up for unemployment, got DENIED!!! Yay for govt.! He finally took a job with another company. I’m taking bets on how long till he tries to get laid off/fired/furloughed. Oh, and his wife is one of those being HANDED $800 per week as opposed to the $400 she was EARNING!

 

[Phase2]

Yes I agree the divide has been building. And I think the reason Trump was elected, and the fact his supporters feel defensive comes from years of many liberals not understanding the other side particularly the rural areas.

or the Constitution or tolerance or economics or ....

 

[chipbennett]

I do see Sysco and US Foods and others that supply mainly restaurants.

How about at the other end of the supply chain though? Are restaurants supplied by different meat packing plants for example?

When the supply chains get far enough upstream, they converge. I'm not expert enough to know where that convergence is. I would assume that meat-packing plants are within it (i.e. they supply both supply chains).

 

[chipbennett]

After reading on here from you and others, that his comments were clearly directed at the doctors and clearly in context something they might investigate, I am now reading in the news that Trump said he was being sarcastic, directing his comments to reporters, to see what the media would do.

I didn't watch or listen today so did he really say that? If so did he really mean it?

I dunno.

I can see how Trump would have seen himself as trying to troll the reporters with those comments. I've never liked Trump's delivery, and I've been open about that. If this is such an example of Trump's delivery style, then it's an example of what I don't like.

That said, I do get a non-trivial degree of schadenfreude watching the media and other NeverTrumpers lose their crap over Trump's antics.

 

[chipbennett]

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I can see that no matter what he does, his supporters just dig in. That's exactly why this pandemic has become politicized

Yes. It is clearly Trump supporters who have politicized this pandemic.

 

[chipbennett]

Did you read the thread? This isn't about wanting lockdown. it's about testing and tracing being a rational solution.

Widespread contact tracing is not a rational solution for anyone who understands and wants to protect individual liberty.

 

[chipbennett]

Maybe, haven't had the chance yet to check out all the 3rd party candidates.

If we are going to play hypotheticals, maybe the Republicans would not have lost the house. I think we are better off surrendering the Presidency and keeping the Senate and the House. So if Hillary won, the Republicans would have been more energized and won the House and I would have been ok with that. WE wouldn't have had 3 years of open borders. As to the 1.2-2 mil number, that's also a hypothetical.

The judiciary, including SCOTUS, disagrees.

 

[chipbennett]

So you are arguing for less testing?

I see it more as an argument that testing shouldn't be the basis for ending the economic lockdown.

 

[chipbennett]

I'm a strong advocate of personal responsibility

I have also (in the past, several times) said that disease outbreak is one of the few times when personal rights conflict. This is even MORE true now than I had previously imagined. I had previously imagined someone who was a known carrier of a disease and didn't want to be quarantined. Now we have a very difficult reality such that many of us may be asymptomatic carriers.

I think the first step in having this conversation is admitting that personal rights conflict. People have the right to travel, engage in commerce, etc. But they don't have the right to fling germs at other people's respiratory systems and yet we know that is happening, even with totally innocent intentions.

It's somewhat like the fictional scenario if "guns really did go off randomly even when you carry them around in a holster".

I disagree completely. Germs and infections are a constant on this planet. Every human contact spreads germs of some kind or another. Life and freedom are inherently fraught with risk, and freedom trumps safety.

It is the responsibility of the at-risk person to take appropriate precautions for their risk; FULLSTOP.