Coronovirus III

[dusty88]

Yeah listening to Rogan's podcast today, talking about testing. UCLA study says there's a very small rate of mortality... early antibody testing, more people being tested... far more have had it and survived. They thought it was like 20k, and it ends up being 400k... much lower fatality rate. Still very dangerous, obviously, but not as dangerous as the worst case scenario.

"If" the serology testing turns out to be accurate, that indeed bodes well for the long term. It does however emphasize that the reduced contact has been very important because diseases with high rate of asymptomatic and presymptomatic carrier spread most rapidly.

We "might" be doing a bit of the right thing. I hope so.

 

[foszoe]

Maybe, haven't had the chance yet to check out all the 3rd party candidates.

If we are going to play hypotheticals, maybe the Republicans would not have lost the house. I think we are better off surrendering the Presidency and keeping the Senate and the House. So if Hillary won, the Republicans would have been more energized and won the House and I would have been ok with that. WE wouldn't have had 3 years of open borders. As to the 1.2-2 mil number, that's also a hypothetical.

One more time...

Trump is not perfect.Heck, maybe he isn't even good...but where would we be if Hiliary had been elected?
We'd have had three years of open borders, there would have been no restriction on immigration, current US deaths would be between 1.2 to 2 million.


It isn't that Trump is so good; it's that the other choices are so bad.

 

[foszoe]

So you are arguing for less testing?

More testing is the province of those looking for reasons to lockdown. It has been proven here many times we do not know the numerator nor denominator so how can we know the answer? Let the people decide. If you want to lockdown do it, but do not impose that on those that want to get moving. Free country free choice...

 

[foszoe]

Yes and supporting him solely based on facts.

So only someone who voted for Trump can be unbiased?

 

[Ingomike]

So only someone who voted for Trump can be unbiased?

Nope, I own my bias, tired of those falsely claiming such...

 

[Ingomike]

So you are arguing for less testing?

Only academics even care as of now. Let the people decide if it is safe or not. Freedom, let it ring. The public at large should make the decision...

 

[dusty88]

Only academics even care as of now. Let the people decide if it is safe or not. Freedom, let it ring. The public at large should make the decision...

I'm a strong advocate of personal responsibility

I have also (in the past, several times) said that disease outbreak is one of the few times when personal rights conflict. This is even MORE true now than I had previously imagined. I had previously imagined someone who was a known carrier of a disease and didn't want to be quarantined. Now we have a very difficult reality such that many of us may be asymptomatic carriers.

I think the first step in having this conversation is admitting that personal rights conflict. People have the right to travel, engage in commerce, etc. But they don't have the right to fling germs at other people's respiratory systems and yet we know that is happening, even with totally innocent intentions.

It's somewhat like the fictional scenario if "guns really did go off randomly even when you carry them around in a holster".

 

[dusty88]

I wonder if this is true. Reportedly. Chris Cuomo was too important to be quarantined while positive for SARSCov2 ?

https://twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1253849059577794560

 

[CampingJosh]

Nope, I own my bias, tired of those falsely claiming such...

So everyone is biased, and it's always impossible to set aside bias and try to look at anything objectively?

That means that pointing out bias is a waste. It's like pointing out that every meeting room has air in it.

 

[dusty88]

If anyone is interested, I started this list on Twitter. It consolidates tweets from "pandemic references". They are primarily virologists, epidemiologists, frontline ERdocs and I think 3 accounts specifically focused on Covid19 or bioscience journalism. The latter may get political; the docs not so much.

I've found it far more helpful than typical media articles. Their explanations are useful. Their references are usually scientific rather than political.

https://twitter.com/i/lists/1248261818608431107

 

[Alpo]

Hydroxychloroquine, there, Donald

Also, using sincere as a modifier of criticism is a case of twisted begging the question

Rather picky. Trump says something extraordinarily dumb and you raise the stakes to chemical formulation and grammar, both topics on which Trump couldn't carry Foz's water.

Yes there is no hydrochloroquinine. Hydroxychloroquinine and chloroquinine differ only in one containing an hydroxide group and one containing a methyl group.

But, either chemical compound, or as Foz suggests, taking chloroquinine with water, efficacy vis a vis SARS-CoV-2 is unproven and potentially hazardous.

 

[Alpo]

I've completely forgot the 6 foot thing. I'm just not used to it. I dont like to get right up on people anyways but I'm certainly not staying 6'away from everyone when I've went out. I'm not doing it intentionally, it's just not normal for me. I wear a mask so I'm not putting germs on people anyways but if I've offended or scared someone when I've went out by getting within that 6' bubble it wasn't on purpose.
I'm going to try to make a mental note to look out and observe it the next time I go out.
Even if I think it is stupid now, I'll play the game. I just want them to ope. This up and start showing people this is all bs.

I went to pick up my meat order today from Archers. I don't have a mask. Again, the CDC told me we didn't need a mask....and then they changed their mind and said we needed masks. So, which is it, Doc? I'll tell you what I think: people who are untrained in the "art" of wearing a mask are walking placebo exhibits. I still don't have a mask and won't wear one. If I'm sneezing or coughing, I'll stay home.

But, to ensure that the meat was properly sterilized, I selected on 4 pound sirloin tri-tip roast and inserted it in my outdoor dry-heat autoclave after sanitizing said roast with liberal amounts of garlic, olive oil, red wine vinegar and pepper.

It was delicious.

 

[tbhausen]

If you want to pull the lever for the slower, stupider, more corrupt choice (Biden) in November, color me unsurprised

You left out “clearly too senile to do the job”.

 

[tbhausen]

And I see the US got caught scarcely better prepared than a third world country. THAT's why we are hunkering down so long because we still don't have testing ramped up enough to present a better alternative.

We could have been more prepared, sure, but this comment is simply absurd on its face.

 

[tbhausen]

I think and have thought for a long time that testing is stupid. You can get tested and get infected 10 minutes later.
Useless.

Bingo… Antibody testing might ultimately prove useful, but how often should we test everyone for the disease?

 

[Alpo]

Binary testing: presence of antibodies or not.
Secondary testing: Negative first tests followed up in x days or months for retest

If it is determined that the presence of antibodies does not provide for prolonged immunity then go to Plan B.

 

[Snapdragon]

I still don't have a mask and won't wear one. If I'm sneezing or coughing, I'll stay home.

Because you simply won't allow yourself to be one of the thousands of asymptomatic people who carry the disease around for a week before they get sick?

 

[Alpo]

No, because they first told us not to wear masks because we were using supplies that should go to EMT's, doctors, nurses and others in especially important jobs.

So, I cancelled my M95 mask order.

Then, they said to wear a mask.

They don't get to tell me now what they should have told me in the first place.

It appears that they do not know wtf they are talking about.

So, I keep my distance from others and I go commando.

 

[dusty88]

All that masks are going to do is slow the droplets a bit which is probably counteracted by the fact that people touch them to adjust them all the time and that it gives them a false sense of security.

The effect of a mask also goes away pretty quickly once you've been breathing moist air into it for a few minutes. If they're going to encourage or require people to wear them, they need some more education on using them.

 

[dusty88]

No, because they first told us not to wear masks because we were using supplies that should go to EMT's, doctors, nurses and others in especially important jobs.

So, I cancelled my M95 mask order.

Then, they said to wear a mask.

They don't get to tell me now what they should have told me in the first place.

It appears that they do not know wtf they are talking about.

So, I keep my distance from others and I go commando.

I think you're correct that the main goal early was to keep the masks for healthcare providers which they should have just said out loud.

However, learning more about the large number of asymptomatic carriers does legitimately change the recommendation. A properly worn mask may reduce the chance of an asymptomatic carrier affecting others. The percentage of asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic carriers is still being debated in wasn't understood in the beginning