Coronavirus

[Expat]

"Patients are considered “recovered” when throat and nose swabs are negative in two consecutive tests, a CT scan is negative for lung lesions, and they have no fever or other symptoms, according to COVID-19 guidelines by the National Health Commission."

The article also said that people may not have completely eliminated the infection in their lungs, and then test positive again later. So it may not be that they caught it twice but that they weren't completely over it. Perhaps they'll change how they test for being recovered.

Which would then possibly mean that people may have it and be contagious for a much longer time period than they are saying.

 

[Phase2]

FYI- Trump refered to this chart during his talk on Wed.

 

[Phase2]

Which would then possibly mean that people may have it and be contagious for a much longer time period than they are saying.

Absolutely. From earlier in this thread:

I think this is useful info about various viruses that almost certainly applies to coronavirus as well. Feeling well/recovered is not the same as cured. You can still be contagious for a period after recovering. This is captured from the video above:

 

[ditcherman]

Masks alone ain’t gonna help you.

In general, I'll just put this out there because it seems like some folks are missing an important point.

Truth: Masks are marginally effect at keeping someone else's aerosols out of your lungs.

Masks and protective eyewear go a LONG way in preventing you from sticking your boogerhook in your own eye/nose/mouth without making a concerted effort.

The main point I'm trying to make is cleanliness protocols matter. Hand washing and keeping your fingers out of the holes in your head. A lot of people will laugh at the person in the mask, but they're gone now.

The Tyvek suits are disappearing. Gloves will be next I'm guessing. My Walmart only carries about 3 of each size of the heavy duty Playtex gloves. There are about 15 boxes of Nitrile gloves on the shelf (estimating).

When will we get to the Lysol/Clorox shortages?

The masks being worn are largely ineffective. They dont form a seal around the face.
What you need is a N95 mask, but technically you should be fitted for the type you need.
Im not a little green men, black helicopter, flat earth kind of guy, but something about this whole think stinks.
Bazillions are to be made for a new wonder shot everybody will want, that later proves to cause liver damage etc.
My wife posted this on Facebook and it was removed, no kidding. Really makes me wonder...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n05E2vN5Mxk

I talked to my dr this morning specifically about this; I was in for a routine physical but have had a sore throat for a couple of days (swabbed, not strep, just drainage/sinus issues*) and he comes in wearing a mask and apologizing for it. He says its more for me because he's been fighting a cold (sidenote: if we were all that considerate we would be much healthier) but that opened the door
i wanted. It wasn't really sealed very well on his face but he explained that the only way he could contaminate me was if he sneezed and liquid drops blew out the sides. The mask is catching all his germs.
I've been very skeptical of the masks too but this was a good explanation.
Of course if it's some kind of alien magical airborne thing then the mask needs to be sealed.
It's a big challenge to wash your hands for 20 seconds and not touch your face at all. Try it.

*good news, you won't catch the c virus from reading this

 

[ditcherman]

If we have a case in northern Cali that was just caught in the wild, that means it is out and on the loose. It is coming.
I thought i heard on the Today Show this morning that they are now recommending stocking up on diapers, bottled water, etc for 30 days supply.

If it's on the today show, it's way too late. Just like any kind of market moving news is over by the time it makes the mainstream.

 

[ditcherman]

Laying on your stomach can reduce the chance of death by 16%. Not a whole lot but its something

Uuuhhh, what? Link?
Or an I missing the purple?

 

[jamil]

Which would then possibly mean that people may have it and be contagious for a much longer time period than they are saying.

Man, I hope not. It's bad enough as it is. A person can do a lot of infectin' in just a couple of weeks. So, maybe someone goes on a vacation to Japan with some friends. We'll call them "the squad". A group of 4 buddies who've planned this trip for a year. Maybe the squad goes on a tour bus ride and the tour bus guide is one of the people infected from the cruise ship. She's not showing symptoms so they don't know about her. So then she infects one of the squaddies. Throughout their week-long vacation, they all end up getting infected and don't know it because none of them are showing symptoms. Then they infect people they come into contact with while there. So then they fly back to the US, say, LAX. They infect some people on the plane. Those people on that plane infect other people on their connecting flights, taxis, so on.

Meanwhile the squad gets home and is still not showing symptoms. They go home to their families, infect them, who in turn infects other people they come into contact with. And then the squadies go back to their places of work, still not having symptoms. They infect people at work who they come into contact with. And then it ripples out from there, perhaps thousands of people infected just from the ripple from 4 people visiting Japan. And none of them would have symptoms yet. It's kinda hard not to be a little concerned about that.

 

[T.Lex]

I've seen reports of 9 days that the virus can remain contagious outside the body.

Not sure if that's "in the wild" or in a lab, but... that's a long time.

 

[jamil]

I've seen reports of 9 days that the virus can remain contagious outside the body.

Not sure if that's "in the wild" or in a lab, but... that's a long time.

There are a lot of reports floating around, even from what most people think of as reliable sources. But I've read and heard so many conflicting statements about COVID 19, it's almost like a school shooting, where you really don't start hearing hard facts for several days after. I tend to reserve belief for the stuff I've heard reported by reliable sources over several days without the story changing. I've heard a lot of conflicting information about how long it stays contagious outside the body, so I'm just gonna shelve that information until I hear the same things several times from several different sources over a decent period of time. And then, when the story stabilizes, maybe it's reality.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I've seen reports of 9 days that the virus can remain contagious outside the body.

Not sure if that's "in the wild" or in a lab, but... that's a long time.

I just saw something on the news this morning that indicated (almost) the opposite. They were talking about people worrying about going to Chinese restaurants or buying products from China and they said it is only spread through direct contact (via saliva, mucous, etc.) and there is no risk from just casual contact with objects (unless of course there is wet mucous or saliva on those objects). If it truly can survive that long outside of a host organism, it would definitely be atypical for a virus.

 

[smokingman]

More than 8% in Italy are in ICU units.
38% need medical support and are hospitalized(most of these are receiving oxygen)
In the current outbreak, almost all patients need supplemental oxygen https://theglobepost.com/2020/02/27/coronavirus-global-cooperation/
46% are in hospitals.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
This is much higher than the 18-20% suggested by WHO numbers based on Chinese numbers.

The death rate in Italy is at about 1.4% of confirmed cases.This is actually a problem.It is very early in the detection of cases there,and this number will most likely go higher.

They are moving resources and medical equipment into the effected area. Hospitals are already saying they are out of beds(even though 13 where converted to nothing but Covid-19 cases). Doctors are reporting they are totally out of room at 3 hospitals already. 655 confirmed cases,and thousands of probable cases. They are doing massive amounts of testing.

I saw some reports from a WHO official claiming they where not following guidelines of the WHO for testing.This is true.In two ways.One they test way more than WHO guidelines(which they updated today 2/27/2020 to a broader definition it was the same as the CDC guidelines travel to China,lungs,and fever),and two when a patient with known pneumonia test positive the do not test them a second time,as they consider it a waste of resources. The WHO ass that is saying to the world they are not following guidelines knows this,but is still saying he is not sure the cases should be counted because they where not confirmed positive with two tests per WHO guidelines.


https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2...n_italia_aggiornamento_ora_per_ora-249241616/

I think Italy is doing what needs to be done.I think they are doing it as efficiently and quickly as possible.Yes it is a bit chaotic.Yes they have supply issues,and are struggling to get some basics like food to those in infected areas. They are smack in the middle of the worst outbreak of a contagious disease in Italy in over 100 years.I am glad to see the honesty,and the efforts they are going to.Yes they could do more(still allowing travel from Italy to the rest of the EU for example).

It is definitely worth paying attention to.It is much more realistic to what will happen in the USA.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

I talked to my dr this morning specifically about this; I was in for a routine physical but have had a sore throat for a couple of days (swabbed, not strep, just drainage/sinus issues*) and he comes in wearing a mask and apologizing for it. He says its more for me because he's been fighting a cold (sidenote: if we were all that considerate we would be much healthier) but that opened the door
i wanted. It wasn't really sealed very well on his face but he explained that the only way he could contaminate me was if he sneezed and liquid drops blew out the sides. The mask is catching all his germs.
I've been very skeptical of the masks too but this was a good explanation.
Of course if it's some kind of alien magical airborne thing then the mask needs to be sealed.
It's a big challenge to wash your hands for 20 seconds and not touch your face at all. Try it.

*good news, you won't catch the c virus from reading this

With the internet it is difficult to try and catch all the details of a subject without creating a wall of text that no one wants to read. So we are left trying to make the most poignant statement with the fewest words.

N95 masks is the grade of masks I was referring to in my previous post. I also have a respirator with P100 filters. Some will still argue it isn't enough.

Hard surface transference is my biggest fear.

I work in aerospace, gloves, masks and eye-pro are required but people still touch their faces. It is very tough not to do. Gloves, masks and eye protection can help the wearer to not touch their face. Any additional protection from someone else's spittle is certainly a bonus.

The decision is still looming whether I go out wearing a full-face shield or not.

How far should someone go when they have all the gear but are afraid to look silly or incite a panic? I don't want to look stupid, so I don't mind increasing my chances of catching a serious illness.

 

[actaeon277]

Years ago, I got city water to the house.
The well had to be disconnected, can't risk it contaminating the city supply.
But, the well is still there.
I need to pipe it up to a valve and spigot, and reconnect the wires, and I'll have a water source.
I imagine I'd have to run it a bit, probably a lot of iron.

 

[smokingman]

Years ago, I got city water to the house.
The well had to be disconnected, can't risk it contaminating the city supply.
But, the well is still there.
I need to pipe it up to a valve and spigot, and reconnect the wires, and I'll have a water source.
I imagine I'd have to run it a bit, probably a lot of iron.

I would shock it since it has been a long time since it ran.Also may want to consider the pump may not work that long or well due to sitting and rusting.

 

[actaeon277]

I would shock it since it has been a long time since it ran.Also may want to consider the pump may not work that long or well due to sitting and rusting.

Very possible.

Also, I just bought more water filter/jug combos, and "straws". and purifying tablets.
I'll stop at Menards on the way to work, and pick up more water jugs.

 

[smokingman]

More than 8% in Italy are in ICU units.
38% need medical support and are hospitalized(most of these are receiving oxygen)
In the current outbreak, almost all patients need supplemental oxygen https://theglobepost.com/2020/02/27/coronavirus-global-cooperation/
46% are in hospitals.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
This is much higher than the 18-20% suggested by WHO numbers based on Chinese numbers.

The death rate in Italy is at about 1.4% of confirmed cases.This is actually a problem.It is very early in the detection of cases there,and this number will most likely go higher.

They are moving resources and medical equipment into the effected area. Hospitals are already saying they are out of beds(even though 13 where converted to nothing but Covid-19 cases). Doctors are reporting they are totally out of room at 3 hospitals already. 655 confirmed cases,and thousands of probable cases. They are doing massive amounts of testing.

I saw some reports from a WHO official claiming they where not following guidelines of the WHO for testing.This is true.In two ways.One they test way more than WHO guidelines(which they updated today 2/27/2020 to a broader definition it was the same as the CDC guidelines travel to China,lungs,and fever),and two when a patient with known pneumonia test positive the do not test them a second time,as they consider it a waste of resources. The WHO ass that is saying to the world they are not following guidelines knows this,but is still saying he is not sure the cases should be counted because they where not confirmed positive with two tests per WHO guidelines.


https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2...n_italia_aggiornamento_ora_per_ora-249241616/

I think Italy is doing what needs to be done.I think they are doing it as efficiently and quickly as possible.Yes it is a bit chaotic.Yes they have supply issues,and are struggling to get some basics like food to those in infected areas. They are smack in the middle of the worst outbreak of a contagious disease in Italy in over 100 years.I am glad to see the honesty,and the efforts they are going to.Yes they could do more(still allowing travel from Italy to the rest of the EU for example).

It is definitely worth paying attention to.It is much more realistic to what will happen in the USA.

Well that ended quickly.

Italy changes virus count methods at UN agency's urging

Italian authorities plan from now on to distinguish between people who test positive for the virus and patients showing symptoms of COVID-19, the illness the virus causes, since the majority of the people in Italy with confirmed infections aren’t actually sick.

As of Thursday, Italy reported 528 cases and 12 confirmed deaths from the virus, the most of any country outside Asia. All the patients who died were elderly, sick with other ailments or both.
At the urging of the World Health Organization, Italy also is distinguishing between positive virus tests reported at a regional level and results confirmed by its National Institute of Health. The U.N. health agency insisted that only nationally certified cases are considered official.
“The cases that emerge from the regions are still considered suspect and unconfirmed,” Walter Ricciardi, a WHO adviser to the Italian government, said. "You will see that in the next few days, there will be outbreaks in other countries, too. But the other countries are much more rigorous” in their reporting methods.
I no longer think we will see real numbers out of Italy. Not with so much pressure from the outside,to come up with ways to lower official counts.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/italy-virus-count-methods-agencys-urging-69254949

 

[T.Lex]

I'm ok with the revision in this instance. It is better from an assessment standpoint to have consistency. The numbers will still be reported (suspected/unconfirmed) but in the same categories as other countries.

Italy should've been doing it like that from the beginning.

 

[smokingman]

28 new cases in California.They only have a few hundred test kits. Governor asking for help from CDC.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Coronavirus-live-updates-Trump-to-hold-news-15085591.php

 

[smokingman]

I'm ok with the revision in this instance. It is better from an assessment standpoint to have consistency. The numbers will still be reported (suspected/unconfirmed) but in the same categories as other countries.

Italy should've been doing it like that from the beginning.

What the WHO is saying is a STATE lab who confirms a case with a test is not an official case.
Not that they did not test.

 

[KittySlayer]

Laying on your stomach can reduce the chance of death by 16%. Not a whole lot but its something

So if PeterButt were our current president he could have laid down and demonstrated the safe position for the press corps at the briefing last night?