Concerning the Politics subforum.

[level.eleven]

I think there are two separate issues here that people are morphing into one giant mess. At least that's the way I see it.

#1 The thread topic. I haven't seen anyone complain about the topic of the threads. In this case, it appears to be Islam. No one is saying you can't post negative opinions about Islam, have discussions about Islam, or offer you passionate opinion on Islam. Therefore, the censorship angle holds no water with me. No one has publicly stated, I offended that a member posted story xyz about Islam, I would like it removed.

#2 Spamming a message board. This is actually the issue at hand. The owners of the forum have decided that posting 5-7 copy and paste articles, with no original commentary, no link to the article itself, all in the matter of minutes, on a daily basis, is not healthy for a functioning discussion forum. You can call it what you want, but it was spam. The situation is made even more worse because the topic is a hot button issue - Islam.

Now, we have a he said she said. Internet - serious business.

 

[lashicoN]

I just think that none of us understand why he was banned. So many people are probably worried about being banned because the issue is so cloudy. He posted too much? He copies and pastes too much? Was it his personal opinions the mods didn't agree with?

All I'm saying is, and I said it before, he didn't write the articles he posted. They were actual event, news articles. Can he help it that they happened? There was/is no rule to my knowledge of posting x amount of x type of stories, so how would he, or any of us know, what to post and what not to post? We need either an explanation or a much more specific list of forum rules.

 

[Beau]

I think it's total crap the haldir was banned. I feel that he was banned for what he was posting rather than the style in which he made his posts. I have always told people I meet to check this site out. I told them it was the best site ever. I don't feel that way anymore. While I still think this is a really good site it seems to have taken a turn for the worse the past couple of months. The downturn isn't due to members but due to the way the site is being run lately. The thing I liked most here is that it seemed we were able to post or discuss anything so long as it was kept civil. That is not happening anymore. If the politics are limited to gun ownership and the 2A I will be looking for another site to frequent. I can get gun info from any number of sites. Being able to discuss all the other things that affect us is what set this site apart from others for me.

 

[ATF Consumer]

What I'm saying is that if we go arbitrarily deleting people's posts simply because "we don't like them," it would cause a crapstorm of untold proportions. Furthermore, that's not the kind of environment we're trying to foster here.

That's funny I have posts deleted on a regular basis and never once told why. I have made a few pokes at the situation, but have never received an infraction for anything I have ever posted...not that I'm looking for one but my posts have in fact been deleted because someone didn't like them.

 

[techres]

I think there are two separate issues here that people are morphing into one giant mess. At least that's the way I see it.

#1 The thread topic. I haven't seen anyone complain about the topic of the threads. In this case, it appears to be Islam. No one is saying you can't post negative opinions about Islam, have discussions about Islam, or offer you passionate opinion on Islam. Therefore, the censorship angle holds no water with me. No one has publicly stated, I offended that a member posted story xyz about Islam, I would like it removed.

#2 Spamming a message board. This is actually the issue at hand. The owners of the forum have decided that posting 5-7 copy and paste articles, with no original commentary, no link to the article itself, all in the matter of minutes, on a daily basis, is not healthy for a functioning discussion forum. You can call it what you want, but it was spam. The situation is made even more worse because the topic is a hot button issue - Islam.

Now, we have a he said she said. Internet - serious business.

This is a good guide. A very good guide.

 

[techres]

I just think that none of us understand why he was banned. So many people are probably worried about being banned because the issue is so cloudy. He posted too much? He copies and pastes too much? Was it his personal opinions the mods didn't agree with?

All I'm saying is, and I said it before, he didn't write the articles he posted. They were actual event, news articles. Can he help it that they happened? There was/is no rule to my knowledge of posting x amount of x type of stories, so how would he, or any of us know, what to post and what not to post? We need either an explanation or a much more specific list of forum rules.

See level.eleven's post above. It is a good guide.

 

[rmcrob]

All I know is this: If I were Fenway, I would have shut down the whole shootin' match a long time ago. The man has patience that is unbelievable. I hope you all appreciate his patience with you.

All this stuff with testing the limits and seeing what you can get by with and trying to be legalistic about the application of rules, etc., well, it's all so Junior High.

 

[shooter521]

That's funny I have posts deleted on a regular basis and never once told why.

Just because we don't tell you what the reason is, doesn't mean there isn't one (and by that I mean a legitimate reason, beyond "I don't like what he had to say"). Modding is time-intensive enough as it is; if we had to inform every member every time we yanked a post, it would become a full time job. In which case I'd have to ask Fenway to up my salary considerably.

 

[lashicoN]

All I know is this: If I were Fenway, I would have shut down the whole shootin' match a long time ago. The man has patience that is unbelievable. I hope you all appreciate his patience with you.

All this stuff with testing the limits and seeing what you can get by with and trying to be legalistic about the application of rules, etc., well, it's all so Junior High.

I'm sorry, but my right to unabridged freedom of speech is anything but "Junior High". I am an American before anything else, before being a gun owner. I'm not only a gigantic fan of the Second Amendment, I love them all, especially the first. I'm sad to see that you disagree. True freedom is speech is so important for the United States.

Techres: If the ban was simply because of a volume of posts in a day, then can I ask, simply for clarification, for everyone here, what is the limit of posts per day?

 

[bigg cheese]

Sad Fact #1

I read the entire thread

Sad Fact #2

I'm posting in it

Sad Fact #3

Lack of moving on. I've heard less complaining from a guy who's buddy just got booted from a bar by the bouncer.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Just because we don't tell you what the reason is, doesn't mean there isn't one (and by that I mean a legitimate reason, beyond "I don't like what he had to say"). Modding is time-intensive enough as it is; if we had to inform every member every time we yanked a post, it would become a full time job. In which case I'd have to ask Fenway to up my salary considerably.

Seriously? If you have time to delete a post, you have time to send a copy and paste forum rule that was broken to the member that the post was deleted from...you are only making excuses now.

Besides, how are we to know what we violated and all of the sudden, become a statistic like Haldir?

 

[cce1302]

Haldir, or Scott, or Mike, or anyone can say whatever he wants on HGC. Haldir's inability to grasp our warnings to him are between him and the mod team. He can say whatever he wants over there - the same as the board members who post at both sites.

We have worked hard to keep this from turning into a board war and have not posted, and do not plan to post, anything from other sites here as it is not good for either site.

Haldir was banned and is not coming back. If you are concerned that you might get banned, PM a mod or Fenway and share your concerns. If you cannot live with Haldir being banned, then I am sorry you feel that way.

I stand by my original comments as to the reason for his ban, even if I broke the rules in sharing it. I had hoped to help people understand and help move this on. But is it apparent that no reason will work for many and they will complain no matter how it is explained (see damned if you do, damned if you don't comments above).

We have a great site here and if you cannot take the pruning of threads, post, and occational users which happens to keep it great - then PM Fenway, cope, or move on.

Do you think that you could add the rules that he got banned for breaking to the list of rules? It would certainly help the rest of us keep those rules. As it is now, the rules are as follows:

General Forum Rules

1) INGunOwners.com is viewed by thousands of people a day (not all of them gun owners or even gun friendly) As a public board we must make a good impression to those who view our community and represent Hoosier Gun Owners in the best possible light. INGO is a family friendly site and material posted must remain appropriate. Spamming, trolling, flaming or other personal attacks will not be tolerated.

2) Language that would be inappropriate in the polite company of strangers is unwelcome here. Posts which are indecipherable due to the inability to translate thoughts into coherent written statements will be deleted without explanation.

3) Avatars and Signatures are allowed but must be family-friendly. Signature size must be appropriate and not distract from the flow of threads.

4) As we can never convey a philosophy through a few rules, we reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to edit or delete posts and/or to revoke Membership. No Second Chances; No Argument; No Trial; No Way. At best you will receive one warning via PM (Private Message).

Subject to these few constraints, we hope you'll join us and actively participate in the discussions here on INGO. Enjoy

Granted, Rule #4 is a nice catch all, but it's pretty vague.

 

[techres]

Techres: If the ban was simply because of a volume of posts in a day, then can I ask, simply for clarification, for everyone here, what is the limit of posts per day?

Be a real member of the forum and not a "post my obsession 5-10 threads" a a day and leave kind of guy and there won't be any issue. Frankly, we don't have any other members like Haldir and the issue is not on our radar with any other users at this time.

And if you are looking for a hard number, that is a trap (intentional or unintentional) that I will not fall into.

 

[mettle]

94 posts in 7 hours, we are making good time hear folks! Keep up the good work!

 

[shibumiseeker]

Be a real member of the forum and not a "post my obsession 5-10 threads" a a day and leave kind of guy and there won't be any issue. Frankly, we don't have any other members like Haldir and the issue is not on our radar with any other users at this time.

And if you are looking for a hard number, that is a trap (intentional or unintentional) that I will not fall into.

Would his situation have been any different if he had started a single thread and then posted his material in that one thread? Keeping it together like that is a great way to allow someone to have a forum without it taking over the rest of the place.

 

[shooter521]

If you have time to delete a post, you have time to send a copy and paste forum rule that was broken to the member that the post was deleted from...you are only making excuses now.

As I have said before, the vast majority of folks don't give a crap that one of their posts got pulled, let alone why. For those who ask, I'm happy to answer (and have!), but I'm not going to waste my time and energy providing explanations on the front end in every instance.

 

[Joe Williams]

Be a real member of the forum and not a "post my obsession 5-10 threads" a a day and leave kind of guy and there won't be any issue. Frankly, we don't have any other members like Haldir and the issue is not on our radar with any other users at this time.

And if you are looking for a hard number, that is a trap (intentional or unintentional) that I will not fall into.

I pointed out a number of threads that member has participated in in the last couple days, contrary to INGO's continued claims that he did not participate in the forum in any other way.

 

[shooter521]

Would his situation have been any different if he had started a single thread and then posted his material in that one thread?

Possibly.

 

[lashicoN]

Would his situation have been any different if he had started a single thread and then posted his material in that one thread? Keeping it together like that is a great way to allow someone to have a forum without it taking over the rest of the place.

That's actually a pretty good idea, if it was just a clutter issue. Make one post a day or so with 5-X links inside that post.

Techres: I wasn't trying to lay a trap. I'm honestly just asking for the sake of clarification.

 

[Lars]

For what it's worth.

A note on FREE SPEECH:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

INGO = Congress now?