Concerning the Politics subforum.

[hornadylnl]

I'll liken this to a church that I became a member of. I'm not real fond of church "membership" to begin with but the pastor was practically hounding us about it so we joined. Not 3 months later, the church split up. Again, I'm the last to hear anything that is going on.

There were a few people who attended that made their opinion known on how things should be run. Depending on what side you want to believe is who was right about how their opinions were handled. I don't know if the complainers were tactful, rude, or whatever. But all of this happened behind close doors and only those on the "inside" were privy to what was going on.

This was the start of the cancer that destroyed the church. These few people were more or less told that their opinions weren't welcome so they left. Friends of those who left wanted to know why and slowly, the story worked it's way around to the rest of the church. By the time the church split, I don't think most knew or cared which side was right. I was upset that as a member, all of this was going on without and knowledge of it. I believe the leadership of the church mishandled the situation. If they would have brought everything out into the open, everyone could have been involved and dealt with once and for all. Instead, it was a big secret and just grew like a cancer and bread nothing but mistrust in the leadership.

The cover up is always worse than the crime. I think the above is relevant to what is going on here. I like to know what is going on up front with honesty. If there is a problem, let me know about it. Don't let it fester for days, weeks, months, or years. By that time, the facts have all become clouded and I'm left to try to sort out those who are wrong or right.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Wow!

 

[Andre46996]

You guys who are unhappy here do know there is another Hoosier Gun Club right??

I don't know where to find it but I mean really how many Hoosier Gun Clubs could there be?

 

[techres]

That's nice to know, but why are you telling me?

Oops, that was supposed to be a response to:

I thought I posted a remark here, but I can't find it.

 

[techres]

You guys who are unhappy here do know there is another Hoosier Gun Club right??

I don't know where to find it but I mean really how many Hoosier Gun Clubs could there be?

I am sure they already know that. So do you.

 

[hornadylnl]

Sorry, the last time I gave details I was correctly reminded that I broke the policy not to share that kind of information.

I will not make the mistake again.

It is certainly the right of the site owner to institute that type of policy. But this is a serious question. What good can come from that policy? In my opinion, the only thing it will do is breed distrust. How else are conspiracy theories born? People clearly have information that they clearly won't disperse. Naturally, people will wonder what that information is and all sorts of theories grow from that. In my opinion, withholding that information now to save the grief now will only explode into bigger issues down the road.

 

[techres]

It is certainly the right of the site owner to institute that type of policy. But this is a serious question. What good can come from that policy? In my opinion, the only thing it will do is breed distrust. How else are conspiracy theories born? People clearly have information that they clearly won't disperse. Naturally, people will wonder what that information is and all sorts of theories grow from that. In my opinion, withholding that information now to save the grief now will only explode into bigger issues down the road.

You will note that it is a damned if you do and damned if you don't deal. I gave info and was damned, and if I do not I am damned.

Those who disagree, disagree.

 

[henktermaat]

Concerning that other site: I see no reason to jump ship. This site is great, and the actual problems lie within human nature, which will follow us everywhere we go.

 

[mk2ja]

Concerning that other site: I see no reason to jump ship. This site is great, and the actual problems lie within human nature, which will follow us everywhere we go.

I was invited to create an account on the other forum, and I did, but I haven't even been back to the site since then. I really enjoy INGO and I'd like to stick around.

As some have said in here already, I don't have all the facts — actually, I have no facts — about why any members were banned, so I'll refrain from speculation as to the circumstances.

 

[dross]

I very much appreciate this site, and I particularly enjoy the politics forum. I think that civilized debate is a rare art, and I have seen several threads here that were very encouraging. Peer pressure and some people setting a good example led to most of the people posting arguing politely.

I also think that it's going to be hard to say one thing is politics and one thing is not. I see a political angle in many, many things. I think a forum such as this should be pretty freewheeling.

As to Haldir, it's clear he has a pretty serious anti-Islam agenda. Yet, I don't recall him attacking Islam in what I would call a bigoted way. I think any religion could be attacked the same way - pointing out the inconsistencies and the excesses, and even the base philosophies of the religion. That said, if he was warned, he should have followed the warnings. We can agree or not agree, but this site is private property. I appreciate the administrators here listening. I recently watched a guy get banned on another site just for stating a mild opinion that disagreed with the guy who runs the site.

Now, I think it would be a huge mistake to try to control things much more tightly than they have been. Some people find passionate discussion distasteful. Why can't they just skip this, or register their opinion without getting their feelings hurt? I've never understood this desire to control others through authority. So what if you give your opinion and ten people blast it? No, they shouldn't call names or get personal, but if they do, so what? Take it for what it's worth. Maybe you'll learn something. Someone says something offensive? Argue with them! Tell them why it's offensive. Improve your communication skills. Crying to the mods every time something disturbs your sensibilities is frankly a little pathetic. Move on or join the fray. Don't run to the teacher.

I hope this stays the same. I've seen some good things ruined because a few people complained. I have several sites I check once a day or once a week. This one I check several times a day.

I just sent in my Site Supporter donation, which I would not have done if the Politics forum was radically different.

Finally, how about a heavily regulated politics forum, then a more freewheeling one. On one, you would rigidly enforce topics and discussion, on the other you'd run it about like you do this one. See which one gets more use. Call it the, "Kinder, Gentler Politics and 2nd Amendment Issues" forum. All the sweet, gentle souls can hang out there. Sip tea and knit and agree with each other.

 

[SavageEagle]

I'm still trying to grasp why you would not allow all forms of political discussion in the politics section. It doesn't say 2A-Only politics. It doesn't say Local-Only or National-Only politics. It says Politics. Politics encompasses a VAST range of topics from small town boards to what some hole village in France is doing with their laws. If you are going to limit the kinds of topics posted, there needs to be a clear set of rules posted for all to see.

Also, most of us do NOT troll the comments/suggestions subforum and do not see some of the stuff going on until it's too late. I only seen the poll about spliting the politics subforum because of another post in the break room.

Personally, if we're not allowed to post all kinds of topics about politics I will quit supporting the site. Just because one thread has more views than another that was created at the same time doesn't mean jack and you all know it. Does it have views? Yes? Well, it looks like someone was interested in it. No? Guess it can be LEFT ALONE to die on it's own.

Read that right? If it's not getting views, LET IT DIE ON IT'S OWN. No need to close, delete, infract, BAN.

If someone doesn't like the content of the thread, they don't have to read it. They are offended by the thread? CRY ME A RIVER. When did this site start acting like a bunch of LIBERALS by catering to every single wave of complaints? I mean, I can understand if a thousand or so members start complaining altogether, but when 100 or so complain, and probably even less than that, stuff starts getting deleted, threads close or disappear, people get banned or threatened with the ban hammer.... It's just starting to get a bit ridiculous.

We're all about the Second Amendment, but HEAVEN FORBID we exercise the First.

Ok, I said my piece. Take it as you wish, ban me, infract me, delete the post, whatever. That's all I have to say about this and will leave you to you're decision.

 

[jeremy]

The cover up is always worse than the crime. I think the above is relevant to what is going on here. I like to know what is going on up front with honesty. If there is a problem, let me know about it. Don't let it fester for days, weeks, months, or years. By that time, the facts have all become clouded and I'm left to try to sort out those who are wrong or right.

Ask and you shall receive. Straight from the horses mouth.

Yes, I am haldir there. I received no warning at all. I got an infraction 5 or 6 months ago for calling the Meach an idiot. I was posting my usual 3 or 4 new stories yesterday. Most of you know that 4 or 5 days per week I will post a batch of new stories about Muslim terrorism through out the world. Last night immediately Lars posts to each of them that these appear to be religious not political. (for the life of me I don't see any difference in our current world when it comes to Islam). I sent him a PM asking if I am being told not to post these sorts of stories or to post them in the break room. No response. Remember a few weeks ago the owner put up a poll about getting rid of non 2nd Amendment politics. I don't think the results went the way the Mods wanted as it was overwhelmingly for keeping things the way they were or just splitting the category. Virtually no one was for getting rid of them which I know was not what techres, scutter, and others wanted. While I was waiting for some response, I noticed Lars had posted another poll about not allowing people to post copies of stories, just links. He said it clutters up the politics forum too much. He then used as examples 5 posts that I had made with most if not all the story quoted. I started to think that I was being targeted after seeing that.

So I certainly don't feel I was treated fairly. If they want to make a rule, no more posts on Islamic terrorism, fine, make it. Why try to do it by sneaking around. I knew though after the tag team that techres and bill pulled on me over the issue a month or so ago that I was not really welcome there any more.

 

[360]

...Sip tea and knit and agree with each other.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

More wow!

 

[Andre46996]

IBTL

 

[jeremy]

Concerning that other site: I see no reason to jump ship. This site is great, and the actual problems lie within human nature, which will follow us everywhere we go.

I have been here from the start pretty much... I see know reason to leave.
Debate is what this place is about. Discussion is what this place was when it started. It takes at least 2 sides to have discussion. We as members have done a pretty good job of policing after ourselves for a long time. If you are going to throw mud then expect to get dirty...

 

[printcraft]

..................
Finally, how about a heavily regulated politics forum, then a more freewheeling one. On one, you would rigidly enforce topics and discussion, on the other you'd run it about like you do this one. See which one gets more use. Call it the, "Kinder, Gentler Politics and 2nd Amendment Issues" forum. All the sweet, gentle souls can hang out there. Sip tea and knit and agree with each other.

Sounds good on the surface but it would have too much cross contamination to last.
Too many will find that they are unable to resist the urge to click a thread in a area they by their own actions should not be in
and then get their sensibilities upset and "run to the teacher to tell" as you stated.

 

[360]

Not sure if this is OT, and I hate to but when I requested that Advanced Forum Statistics Mod, it was this type of scenario that I had in mind. At my forum, it helped keep the HOT topics in constant eyesite, and the random one-liner posts fell to the wayside. I think it can help here too. The problem is that so many threads are started every minute/hour/day that is nearly impossible to keep up with them. If a particular thread stays hot, it remains in the top 10 of the stats, thus making it easier to follow along with.

 

[dross]

One more thing: Islam is a religion AND a political system. There is no separation of church and state in Islam BY DESIGN. If the philosophies of Islam were being compared to the philosophies of Christianity, it would then be a religious discussion. If the discussion is about how Islam is impacting our world in the form of honor killings, or sharia law being implemented in English common law, or any manner of other topics, it IS politics.

 

[techres]

Ask and you shall receive. Straight from the horses mouth.

Yes, I am haldir there. I received no warning at all. I got an infraction 5 or 6 months ago for calling the Meach an idiot. I was posting my usual 3 or 4 new stories yesterday. Most of you know that 4 or 5 days per week I will post a batch of new stories about Muslim terrorism through out the world. Last night immediately Lars posts to each of them that these appear to be religious not political. (for the life of me I don't see any difference in our current world when it comes to Islam). I sent him a PM asking if I am being told not to post these sorts of stories or to post them in the break room. No response. Remember a few weeks ago the owner put up a poll about getting rid of non 2nd Amendment politics. I don't think the results went the way the Mods wanted as it was overwhelmingly for keeping things the way they were or just splitting the category. Virtually no one was for getting rid of them which I know was not what techres, scutter, and others wanted. While I was waiting for some response, I noticed Lars had posted another poll about not allowing people to post copies of stories, just links. He said it clutters up the politics forum too much. He then used as examples 5 posts that I had made with most if not all the story quoted. I started to think that I was being targeted after seeing that.

So I certainly don't feel I was treated fairly. If they want to make a rule, no more posts on Islamic terrorism, fine, make it. Why try to do it by sneaking around. I knew though after the tag team that techres and bill pulled on me over the issue a month or so ago that I was not really welcome there any more.

Haldir, or Scott, or Mike, or anyone can say whatever he wants on HGC. Haldir's inability to grasp our warnings to him are between him and the mod team. He can say whatever he wants over there - the same as the board members who post at both sites.

We have worked hard to keep this from turning into a board war and have not posted, and do not plan to post, anything from other sites here as it is not good for either site.

Haldir was banned and is not coming back. If you are concerned that you might get banned, PM a mod or Fenway and share your concerns. If you cannot live with Haldir being banned, then I am sorry you feel that way.

I stand by my original comments as to the reason for his ban, even if I broke the rules in sharing it. I had hoped to help people understand and help move this on. But is it apparent that no reason will work for many and they will complain no matter how it is explained (see damned if you do, damned if you don't comments above).

We have a great site here and if you cannot take the pruning of threads, post, and occational users which happens to keep it great - then PM Fenway, cope, or move on.