Close contact shooting with an XD

[kingnereli]

The what if's make my head hurt.

This is just a tool for the toolbox, IF you find yourself in a situation where your only option is a 'belly gun.' In no way is anybody saying "jam your gun into the guy so hard you press it out of battery, then push it forward with your thumb." I'm curious if anybody here has done any firearm training while they are on their back, with attacker(s) on top of them? That is just one example of a time when this might be needed.

And to the idea that the extended guide rod will stop this- You posting that only proves you haven't tried this. The guide rod doesn't do a damn thing unless you're defending yourself from a concrete wall.

BUT, you posting that also proves you consider this scenario a possibility, since you consider the guide rod of the XD as a way to avoid it. All we're doing is showing you how it REALLY happens, and what REALLY works to avoid it.

The law enforcement world has long since had a tradition of carrying wheel guns as backups, even with a semi as a primary. The idea being they are typically very reliable, especially in a position where you may need to jam the gun into somebody. Why does nobody question that, but they question a technique of doing the same with a semi auto gun?

This I can understand. However, The whole debate about this technique started because it was a used as a reason to label a particular safety feature as a "flaw" or somehow improper for a defensive handgun. Only then did we discuss the merits of technique.

Because this technique adversely effects the function of the gun and there are better ways. If nothing else it is no reason to exclude the option of a grip safety.

 

[mettle]

This I can understand. However, The whole debate about this technique started because it was a used as a reason to label a particular safety feature as a "flaw" or somehow improper for a defensive handgun. Only then did we discuss the merits of technique.

Because this technique adversely effects the function of the gun and there are better ways. If nothing else it is no reason to exclude the option of a grip safety.

What if it was 'all of a sudden hailed by any and all authorities' that the grip safety was suddenly determined to be a liability? Would you take heed and change your platform? Or, would your love of the 1911 and the Xd, and emotional investment, steer you into self justifying keeping the firearms?

Just sayin'!

This WHOLE conversation was started b/c of a joke I made about attending Steve's class. He likes to poke fun of XD owners. That was the joke I meant to make. Then all of a sudden people were offended--- I explained that Steve MENTIONED THE PROBLEM of the grip safety in such an instance--- and 'grip safety' guys are fussy, PMing me and wanting to argue.

You work to maintain such composure and display your maturity and that you aren't invested emotionally in your 1911/xd; yet, here you are posting in this thread.
Sorry it was written wrong by me. But, what if the grip safety is in fact a 'flaw'? hmmmm? John Browning thought so....
I certainly didn't mean to step on your toes about mentioning Steve's class. And, I'm glad he has refrained in speaking of other concerns his classes have exposed. I can't imagine the storm from that.

I wish Esrice wouldn't have started this thread and put my name on it, or started it at all-- and just let sleeping dogs lie.

Mods just delete the thread, we aren't learning, just arguing and making fun like the Chevy/Ford guys.

You only learn on the firing line.

 

[ATM]

I disagree.

Sleeping dogs should be messed with and taunted at every opportunity.



IBTL

 

[cce1302]

What if it was 'all of a sudden hailed by any and all authorities' that the grip safety was suddenly determined to be a liability? Would you take heed and change your platform? Or, would your love of the 1911 and the Xd, and emotional investment, steer you into self justifying keeping the firearms?

We'd question it, hold it up to our own experience and training, evaluate it, try it, test it, debate it endlessly, and come up with our own conclusions. We'd be accused of being koolaid drinkers, closed-minded, and amateurs.

Those who trust this "authority" and have fallen in love with this idea that the grip safety is a liability would get butt-hurt that we questioned their theory, whine, accuse the questioners of being untrained etc, and take their toys and go home. And then they'd come back and "apologize" for even bringing it up while still grasping at straws in support of their idea, or make non-sequitur replies to questions, commenting on the time of year, etc.


Hey, wait a minute...

 

[MACHINEGUN]

This thread is useless.. I learned nothing reading all of it.. nothing.

 

[mettle]

We'd question it, hold it up to our own experience and training, evaluate it, try it, test it, debate it endlessly, and come up with our own conclusions. We'd be accused of being koolaid drinkers, closed-minded, and amateurs.

Those who trust this "authority" and have fallen in love with this idea that the grip safety is a liability would get butt-hurt that we questioned their theory, whine, accuse the questioners of being untrained etc, and take their toys and go home. And then they'd come back and "apologize" for even bringing it up while still grasping at straws in support of their idea, or make non-sequitur replies to questions, commenting on the time of year, etc.


Hey, wait a minute...

As I already stated, I never wanted to participate in a discussion about this. It was originally a joke. So, just like your ugly PMs, sarcasm and mockery doesn't help anything.

I agree with machinegun, I've learned nothing either from those who would 'discuss' in this thread as well.

DELETE. My name is on it, somehow, so delete it--- I request it.

 

[kingnereli]

What if it was 'all of a sudden hailed by any and all authorities' that the grip safety was suddenly determined to be a liability? Would you take heed and change your platform? Or, would your love of the 1911 and the Xd, and emotional investment, steer you into self justifying keeping the firearms?

Just sayin'!

Refer to cce1302's last post.

This WHOLE conversation was started b/c of a joke I made about attending Steve's class. He likes to poke fun of XD owners. That was the joke I meant to make. Then all of a sudden people were offended--- I explained that Steve MENTIONED THE PROBLEM of the grip safety in such an instance--- and 'grip safety' guys are fussy, PMing me and wanting to argue.

Ok. If you recall I asked what the joke was referencing. You mentioned the thumb technique and the rest of the time I've been trying to determine the merit of the technique. Specifically, if it is was worth post-labeling a grip safety a "problem." I'm not really concerned with who likes XDs or 1911s. At least fore me, that's not the issue here. Like I said before, I've seen this technique, quickly dismissed it and this time around I gave it some due diligence.

You work to maintain such composure and display your maturity[You bite your tonge.] and that you aren't invested emotionally in your 1911/xd; yet, here you are posting in this thread.

To me, this thread isn't about a particular firearm. So, my emotional co-dependency is irrelevant.

Sorry it was written wrong by me. But, what if the grip safety is in fact a 'flaw'? hmmmm? John Browning thought so....
I certainly didn't mean to step on your toes about mentioning Steve's class. And, I'm glad he has refrained in speaking of other concerns his classes have exposed. I can't imagine the storm from that.

I don't feel like my toes have been stepped on and I'm not now, nor have I ever been upset with you. It is quite obvious how Steve feels about the issue. His posts have been less then cordial.

I wish Esrice wouldn't have started this thread and put my name on it, or started it at all-- and just let sleeping dogs lie.

Mods just delete the thread, we aren't learning, just arguing and making fun like the Chevy/Ford guys.


You only learn on the firing line.

I've found this thread to be particularly enjoyable. My main question through the whole thing being that even the proponents of the thumb technique admit it is highly unlikely that it will be needed is why it is listed as a reason to not have a grip safety? That's all. The "unnecessary bells and whistles" argument is understandable. I may disagree but the argument make sense. This one I just don't get.

 

[JR50]

I like my XD. Is this the right thread to say that?

 

[Steve MI]

It is quite obvious how Steve feels about the issue. His posts have been less then cordial.


I get that when folks that werent there, dont understand the or are given the full text or have trained with me or next to me or agaisnt me try to debunk something they weent there for or the full text of it in the various LIVE FIRE DEMOS and talk about it and its break down ., every one jumps as well and was quick to get on it without knowing what and why

But again i have no clue, as to what i speak. its obvious i did the entire CCS class to make fun of the XD series of gun.

 

[Steve MI]

Since gabe says its ok to do i guess he is more right

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ontact_shots_with_a_pistol_-_gabe_suarez.html

 

[kingnereli]

It is quite obvious how Steve feels about the issue. His posts have been less then cordial.


I get that when folks that werent there, dont understand the or are given the full text or have trained with me or next to me or agaisnt me try to debunk something they weent there for or the full text of it in the various LIVE FIRE DEMOS and talk about it and its break down ., every one jumps as well and was quick to get on it without knowing what and why

But again i have no clue, as to what i speak. its obvious i did the entire CCS class to make fun of the XD series of gun.

Well, inform us of what we're missing.

be says its ok to do i guess he is more right

I don't think anyone is saying it's not "ok to do." We are questioning whether or not it is likely/practical/best. I like what TFin04 said about it being just another available tool. I can understand that.

 

[Steve MI]

Since tfin is my right hand AI there you have it

 

[SirRealism]

Passive-aggressive sarcasm notwithstanding, I have learned a few things from this thread.

 

[kingnereli]

Since tfin is my right hand AI there you have it

OK. I won't argue with the tool analogy.

 

[ihateiraq]

This thread is useless.. I learned nothing reading all of it.. nothing.

thats not entirely true. i learned the detroit sheriffs dept is the only authority on cqb. i put my stock in the army like a sucker. guess its time to pack up and move north.

 

[youngda9]

Here is a great picture illustration of the point, taken from this thread: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...dfi_close_contact_shooting_pics_thoughts.html

Can

Can't

I would NOT recommend shooting your pistol with your thumb directly behind the slide. OUCH

Best to get a good grip on the gun prior to shooting, thus depressing the grip safety in theory.

 

[cce1302]

I would NOT recommend shooting your pistol with your thumb directly behind the slide. OUCH

That's what I thought, too, but rumor has it, it really doesn't hurt too bad. Someone even posted a video of a guy doing it with a Glock.

Of course, it still causes a failure to eject every time, rendering it a 2-hand operation (which I believe was one of the points mentioned against using a handgun with a grip safety).

 

[ihateiraq]

Of course, it still causes a failure to eject every time, rendering it a 2-hand operation (which I believe was one of the points mentioned against using a handgun with a grip safety).

you wouldnt think that if you werent a novice shooter. go get some training.

 

[TFin04]

there are better ways.

Please enlighten us.

 

[TFin04]

I would NOT recommend shooting your pistol with your thumb directly behind the slide. OUCH

Best to get a good grip on the gun prior to shooting, thus depressing the grip safety in theory.

Have you read any of this thread?