CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[Ziggidy]

This I have never heard of.... unless you are referring to the alter boy stuff but how can that be propaganda unless it never happened.

Hey, I was an altar boy; in the Latin years. I remember some of us got in trouble for taking wafers and eating them. We used to love em'.

 

[foszoe]

If I was a moderator, I'd move the last several posts to the Christianity thread according to the tradition of INGO and perhaps that good work would get me into ingoheaven

 

[T.Lex]

One needs to take a stand for what they believe is true. Is Jesus God? How you answer that should put everything else to rest. Father, Son, Holy Spirit - all one? Sure it's a mystery, but it IS biblical.

Really? Which chapter/verse?

Coincidentally, the notion of the Trinity is a product of... tradition.

Jews do not believe Jesus is God, nor do Muslims - it's a fact. If they do not believe Jesus is God, then they do not believe that the God we worship/believe in. Simple.

And water is not ice, and vice versa. Some things can be made simple without losing nuance. Most complicated things can't.

And, with apologies to foszoe, if the Trinity is important, from whence does the Spirit proceed, in your view?

You are answering a different question than the one you asked.

Put another way, do YOU believe in the same god as the Jews and Muslims? Remember,they do not believe Jesus is God.

I do not care if they believe in my God or not. At a certain level, I don't care if you do, either.

Me, personally, I believe that they worship the same God I believe in, but do so imperfectly. Dramatically imperfectly, in some cases.

Would YOU, who believes Jesus is God, tell a Muslim or Jew that you worship the same god as they do?

I have good friends who are Muslims and Jews. On the rare times this topic comes up, I do tell them that. That spurs varying amounts of additional conversation. Sometimes, there is agreement.

That we all worship the same God? Knowing they do not believe Jesus Christ is God?

I do not know what God you worship.

( I am assuming you are Christian)

Well.... apparently, it depends on who you ask....

 

[T.Lex]

If I was a moderator, I'd move the last several posts to the Christianity thread according to the tradition of INGO and perhaps that good work would get me into ingoheaven

Haven't you heard? Some don't think Catholicism is Christian.

I wonder what those same people think of Orthodoxy.

 

[2A_Tom]

In the beginning God[SUP](1)[/SUP] created the heaven and the earth.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I and my Father are one.

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.​

(1) Elohiym[video=youtube;D5MRci6d4Mw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5MRci6d4Mw[/video]

 

[Ziggidy]

I do not care if they believe in my God or not. At a certain level, I don't care if you do, either.

Me, personally, I believe that they worship the same God I believe in, but do so imperfectly. Dramatically imperfectly, in some cases.

Interesting to say the least.

You either are or you are not.
You either do or you do not.
You either know or you do not.

Who is God? Who do say God is?

 

[Dead Duck]

Haven't you heard? Some don't think Catholicism is Christian.

I wonder what those same people think of Orthodoxy.

Orthodoxy. Which one?
If it's the Eastern Orthodox Church, aren't they an offshoot of Catholicism that rejects a few "minor things"?

 

[T.Lex]

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I and my Father are one.

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.​

Yeah.... you are aware of the issues with that last one, right?

And in context, that isn't as explicitly describing the Trinity as you suggest. Otherwise, a whole bunch of schism-y things would have been avoided.

The actual history is that the concept of the Trinity was an (appropriate) interpretive exercise drawing from many Biblical passages. Jesus was not explicit about the overall relationship of the 3 persons of God.

 

[T.Lex]

Interesting to say the least.

You either are or you are not.
You either do or you do not.
You either know or you do not.

You either like false dichotomies, or you don't.

Who is God? Who do say God is?

He is who is.

 

[T.Lex]

Orthodoxy. Which one?
If it's the Eastern Orthodox Church, aren't they an offshoot of Catholicism that rejects a few "minor things"?

Bwhahahaha

I'm glad foszoe is back. I have a vision of him not knowing where to even start with that.

 

[Ziggidy]

It's not good to be luke warm.

It's very difficult to hold a discussion when there is not an even exchange. I am not afraid or ashamed to say what I believe or where my faith is, and why.

I'll back out.

 

[T.Lex]

It's not good to be luke warm.

It's very difficult to hold a discussion when there is not an even exchange. I am not afraid or ashamed to say what I believe or where my faith is, and why.

I'll back out.

Ok.

I'll quarrel with the "not an even exchange" notion, though. I am presenting a different view, one supported in scripture. That you do not agree with it, or like it, is secondary to whether it exists.

On the notion of false dichotomies, I will point out that the Pharisees continually tried to pin Jesus down with the same kind of argument. Is He a prophet or a demon? He continually rejected it.

 

[Dead Duck]

And again, I am not trying to offend anyone's beliefs here (in this thread anyway) I just don't know the answers and thought I would give INGO a try. I have talked with a few pastors and one priest about Catholicism and I usually got the run-a-round or it's complicated type answer. Also a few monks.... was interesting.

Basically all the extra Catholic stuff that I can't find in the bible. Why is it important if it's not in the bible?

 

[T.Lex]

And again, I am not trying to offend anyone's beliefs here (in this thread anyway) I just don't know the answers and thought I would give INGO a try. I have talked with a few pastors and one priest about Catholicism and I usually got the run-a-round or it's complicated type answer. Also a few monks.... was interesting.

Basically all the extra Catholic stuff that I can't find in the bible. Why is it important if it's not in the bible?

That's a very BROAD question. We do have alot of beliefs. Some of them very specific.

Maybe let's start with a specific one. Do you want to talk about Mary? Or unmarried priests? I'm thinking you may have gotten the "run-around" because the question you asked might've had many different answers. That's not necessarily a run-around by the person trying to answer, its just that some things are not simple.

Catholicism is usually not simple.

Also, I should be absolutely clear about this: I'm no expert. In fact, I don't know hundreds of cubits more than I think I know. And there's even more that I'd like to know (which would probably reveal more stuff that I don't know.)

I'm just a guy who has had certain experiences in a certain field and is willing to share those experiences.

Wait.

Now it kinda sounds like I'm talking about gayness again.

 

[Ziggidy]

Ok.

I'll quarrel with the "not an even exchange" notion, though. I am presenting a different view, one supported in scripture. That you do not agree with it, or like it, is secondary to whether it exists.

On the notion of false dichotomies, I will point out that the Pharisees continually tried to pin Jesus down with the same kind of argument. Is He a prophet or a demon? He continually rejected it.

I’m not asking if you are a prophet or demon. Just asking who you believe God is. There is no view to consider, just a question that you appear afraid to answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[T.Lex]

I’m not asking if you are a prophet or demon. Just asking who you believe God is. There is no view to consider, just a question that you appear afraid to answer.

Afraid?

I've already answered it.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[JettaKnight]

You better be passin' that popcorn, CM.

 

[T.Lex]

I’m not asking if you are a prophet or demon. Just asking who you believe God is. There is no view to consider, just a question that you appear afraid to answer.

Perhaps a different tack.

This is what I profess every Sunday. (Ok, sometimes its Saturday.) (And it might be a weekday if its a Holy Day of Obligation.)

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I will also readily concede that I first learned that with some different words in places. As a Catholic, I can tell you that there's a bureaucracy involved in changing anything. Even translations that have been around hundreds of years.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Fine I'll ask the important questions.

T.Lex.

What if a Catholic priest were to just bless the entire ocean?
Would it turn the entire thing into holy water, or do priests have an effective blessing range?
Does that range increase based on their level?
Can the Pope bless the entire ocean?



Edit, Bonus: