breakingcontact
Expert
I am fully prepared for the works discussion.
By 'prepared' I mean, will totally sit back and watch, having gone through this exercise previously.
Within the context of sanctification, I'll participate.
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CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...
- Thread starter PaulF
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Within the context of sanctification, I'll participate.
Is THAC0 math still a thing?
I programmed a random number generator that required 2 inputs - how many sided dice, and how many rolls - on my TI 99/4a back in the day. That was fun.
Always wondered if certain numbers were destined to come up in a certain order, though.
I programmed a random number generator that required 2 inputs - how many sided dice, and how many rolls - on my TI 99/4a back in the day. That was fun.
Always wondered if certain numbers were destined to come up in a certain order, though.
breakingcontact
Expert
Justification
Sanctification
Glorification
Sanctification
Glorification
I would find it interesting to see how people interpret justification and sanctification (and their opinions on how works plays into all this).
Well... the more I think about it...
My thought was about someone living a life of crime - someone you do not need to explain sin to. Someone that knows they need a savior.
But, then again, there's the suburban soccer mom who thinks everything in life is fine (at least not rock bottom), and has the false concept that there's a God, and he (or she) just wants me to be happy and if I do good things, I'll get to Heaven. That's the person that needs 'splaining.
I think you're *gulp* right, Bug. ....but only because I was thinking about a different type of person than you were thinking about!
As a fallible, fragile human being standing uncomfortably in the shoes of greatness (Peter)? Or did you have in mind a specific (current) Pope?
It's been a long time since I read this:
I am fully prepared for the works discussion.
By 'prepared' I mean, will totally sit back and watch, having gone through this exercise previously.
You still have your T-Shirt, too?
breakingcontact
Expert
Justification is through faith alone. No works and I mean none. (Sola fide)
Throughout our sanctification, we will do good works as we now have regenerate hearts. These good works reflect on that, and not our attempts at sanctification through works. These works are done for the glory of God (Soli Deo gloria).
Hold up.
To GPisshvhgnghunghytr's point, maybe this specific discussion should be moved to the Christianity thread.
I'm not sure any resident non-Christians are particularly interested in this very nuanced issue.
Although, I'm open to expanding the topic to a comparison of how the saved/sanctified/glorified/whateverified process compares to Islam's 5 pillars or Buddhism's 4 truths. That would actually be pretty cool.
To GPisshvhgnghunghytr's point, maybe this specific discussion should be moved to the Christianity thread.
I'm not sure any resident non-Christians are particularly interested in this very nuanced issue.
Although, I'm open to expanding the topic to a comparison of how the saved/sanctified/glorified/whateverified process compares to Islam's 5 pillars or Buddhism's 4 truths. That would actually be pretty cool.
I agree but have one question. Is sanctification separate from good (or not real good) works that will determine our rewards in heaven, or do they go hand in hand?
Personally I see sanctification being the same as the "works" we will be judged for (after justification) that will determine our heavenly rewards. Once we are justified, we become sanctified (set apart). But the process of sanctification is basically life long that evolves continuously.
Your thoughts?
I totally agree justification is through faith alone.
Where were we?
This thread is "general religion", which is not supposed to be cluttered with the nuances of Christian theology.
Speaking of religion.....
I am a devout Christian. I grew up and worked in CA for over 40 years so I knew A LOT of people. Out of all those people, some were atheist. Out of all those atheists, most all were burnouts from the Catholic church. Not any other religions, just X-Catholics. That got me thinking.
Is the "Catholic" story in the bible. Did He tell us we need a pope to follow? Are there scriptures in the bible telling us to worship small statues, trinkets and give praise to Mary Magdalene equally or more so than to Jesus? Most the Catholics I've spoken with usually end this conversation with, "Well, you just have to have faith." or "No faith is perfect."
Oh, I did ask a friend that just started going to a Catholic church, "Why Catholic?" She said she wants more structure and basically she wants to be told what and when to do things. OK. Honest answer. Sounded a bit liberal to me but alright.
And then there's this crap..... like all the time. How many priest jokes have you heard? I've heard a bunch growing up too. This has been going on for a long time now.
US Vatican cardinal: Not once did I even suspect McCarrick | Fox News
No, I'm not bashing the Catholic church, I just want to know whats going on here. If you're offended by this then think of it this way. After this conversation you should be even stronger in your faith........ or not.
Id like to know from you guys that are knowledgeable in the bible, what you think.
And those that think this should be moved to the "Christian" thread, I thought of that but - I know more Christians that don't think Catholicism is Christianity. Just saying.
I am a devout Christian. I grew up and worked in CA for over 40 years so I knew A LOT of people. Out of all those people, some were atheist. Out of all those atheists, most all were burnouts from the Catholic church. Not any other religions, just X-Catholics. That got me thinking.
Is the "Catholic" story in the bible. Did He tell us we need a pope to follow? Are there scriptures in the bible telling us to worship small statues, trinkets and give praise to Mary Magdalene equally or more so than to Jesus? Most the Catholics I've spoken with usually end this conversation with, "Well, you just have to have faith." or "No faith is perfect."
Oh, I did ask a friend that just started going to a Catholic church, "Why Catholic?" She said she wants more structure and basically she wants to be told what and when to do things. OK. Honest answer. Sounded a bit liberal to me but alright.
And then there's this crap..... like all the time. How many priest jokes have you heard? I've heard a bunch growing up too. This has been going on for a long time now.
US Vatican cardinal: Not once did I even suspect McCarrick | Fox News
No, I'm not bashing the Catholic church, I just want to know whats going on here. If you're offended by this then think of it this way. After this conversation you should be even stronger in your faith........ or not.
Id like to know from you guys that are knowledgeable in the bible, what you think.
And those that think this should be moved to the "Christian" thread, I thought of that but - I know more Christians that don't think Catholicism is Christianity. Just saying.
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Oof. I'm ok with here or there in terms of the thread/topic.
That last line is kinda harsh!
But, I guess others feel the same way about Mormonism. So, I think some of the questions are actually very deep and deserve thorough review. My short-form answers are that Catholicism is both biblical AND reliant on the traditions formed in the early church, which area absolutely vital because of the way history was relayed through generations.
I spent several years in my late teens and early 20s not being Catholic. Well, at a certain level I was of course, but I looked at other denominations and religions. Ultimately, when the call I heard could not be ignored any longer, Catholicism is what made sense to me. (It is open whether that was because I was raised Catholic or whatever, which is fine. All I know is what fit for me.)
I think the multitude of ex-Catholics has many causes. Some played out in very public ways, others very personal. There is no simple explanation.
On the flip side, my own experience is that many people are coming back to Catholicism.
Oof. I'm ok with here or there in terms of the thread/topic.
That last line is kinda harsh!
So, I think some of the questions are actually very deep and deserve thorough review. My short-form answers are that Catholicism is both biblical AND reliant on the traditions formed in the early church, which area absolutely vital because of the way history was relayed through generations.
I spent several years in my late teens and early 20s not being Catholic. Well, at a certain level I was of course, but I looked at other denominations and religions. Ultimately, when the call I heard could not be ignored any longer, Catholicism is what made sense to me. (It is open whether that was because I was raised Catholic or whatever, which is fine. All I know is what fit for me.)
I think the multitude of ex-Catholics has many causes. Some played out in very public ways, others very personal. There is no simple explanation.
On the flip side, my own experience is that many people are coming back to Catholicism.
I know. But truly this is the only reason of why I didn't post in the "Christian" thread and I figured I should explain why. I heard if from a few of Christians. Some under their breath and some very openly. A couple of ministers also. Still very harsh to hear.
I believe if we are to be honest with ourselves and each other, we will be respectfully open.
I believe, as many other christians, that placing "tradition" on an equal plane as Jesus, is wrong. Tradition, as I understand it, is man-made. Tradition has created rules and requirements for salvation that requires more than just faith in Christ. It also places unprecedented "honor" to humans (i.e. saints, Mary, pope....). Praying to the dead. A list of others that I do not agree with.
I respectfully do not agree with the catholic church, mormonism, lds or any other man made religion.
I do not mean to offend anyone, it's just my belief.
I believe, as many other christians, that placing "tradition" on an equal plane as Jesus, is wrong. Tradition, as I understand it, is man-made. Tradition has created rules and requirements for salvation that requires more than just faith in Christ. It also places unprecedented "honor" to humans (i.e. saints, Mary, pope....). Praying to the dead. A list of others that I do not agree with.
I respectfully do not agree with the catholic church, mormonism, lds or any other man made religion.
I do not mean to offend anyone, it's just my belief.
Ironically, your statement involves tradition as well. Tradition does not necessarily conflict with what Jesus taught, which must be so since all scripture regarding Jesus' life and teaching did not exist until after his earthly ministry, and so scripture itself was based upon the experience and memory of the disciples, and thus tradition.
The question that comes in then is what tradition do you accept? As you obviously accept some form of tradition. At what point in time did that tradition come into being? During the time of Christ, or 1400 years later?
