Carrier Corp. Moving out of Indy, 1,400 Jobs Gone

[steveh_131]

An admission the market sets prices and that costs do not? Progress!

Uhh. What? Both the market and the costs affect prices. Prices may trail cost fluctuations based on competition, but it all factors in.

So, let's be honest. Its not about bring competitive unless we see price drops undercutting current market price. Else its just to increase profit margin. That's not evil, but its also not mandatory to being competitive.

A company has to be able to make enough profit to satisfy the shareholders and to remain solvent. There's no way around that. In this instance, Carrier foresaw cost issues due to their suppliers now being located in Mexico and their competition already being located there and opted to make the move now before those cost issues tanked them.

Owning a company is a large time and financial investment. Demanding that someone continue to make that investment while not making enough profit to be worthwhile is just plain silly.

 

[steveh_131]

True. Sad all those people are losing their jobs, but the company's loyalty is to its stockholders, no its employees. The is one of the reasons I don't believe in a pure free market.

Do you have some utopia plan in mind where investors are overwhelmingly concerned with the well-being of employees? Especially employees who are sucking the company dry with their ridiculous wages and pensions?

3/4 of these unskilled workers are makingover $70,000 per year plus pensions and benefits. Are we really wondering why they want to move overseas? You think it's a lack of regulation that caused this? Oh, it's the investors who are greedy for wanting a return on their hard earned dollars?

 

[Frosty]

Do you have some utopia plan in mind where investors are overwhelmingly concerned with the well-being of employees? Especially employees who are sucking the company dry with their ridiculous wages and pensions?

3/4 of these unskilled workers are makingover $70,000 per year plus pensions and benefits. Are we really wondering why they want to move overseas? You think it's a lack of regulation that caused this? Oh, it's the investors who are greedy for wanting a return on their hard earned dollars?

So do we blame the union? Sure seems like they are the ones who set the wage. No employee is going to turn down $70k a year. Why doesn't the employer just drop the union?

 

[Crbn79]

So do we blame the union? Sure seems like they are the ones who set the wage. No employee is going to turn down $70k a year. Why doesn't the employer just drop the union?

Exclusivity contract. The only one who can boot the Union is the members themselves. After the interview I saw this morning from the Union Rep, the employee's can thank them. The Rep stated they refuse to bring wages down in order to keep the jobs here. Remember the Bakers Union which caused Hostess to restructure and close down State Side?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So do we blame the union? Sure seems like they are the ones who set the wage. No employee is going to turn down $70k a year. Why doesn't the employer just drop the union?

I don't think they can just drop them...labor laws and such.

 

[Frosty]

Exclusivity contract. The only one who can boot the Union is the members themselves. After the interview I saw this morning from the Union Rep, the employee's can thank them. The Rep stated they refuse to bring wages down in order to keep the jobs here. Remember the Bakers Union which caused Hostess to restructure and close down State Side?

Yes, I do remember that. To bad the media won't report the real issues. The last year I worked as a union carpenter, I made $28 an hour, but I think I only made $15k that year. Did they let me get by without paying my $25 a month dues? Ha, no way! Go to the reps about an issue with a contractor, the agents hands are tied, the contractor pays his bills so they won't touch them.

good thing they wouldn't cut the wages, cause going from $70k to 30k is just unacceptable! We'll show them when they have to close the plant!

I don't think they can just drop them...labor laws and such.

Makes sense, although I figured with Indiana's right to work law they would be able to get out of it, but I think crbn is right, only the employees can vote to get rid of them. Time for a new vote?

 

[steveh_131]

I don't think they can just drop them...labor laws and such.

Exactly. They've got big government behind them.

It always comes down to big government.

 

[Moparracer89]

Makes sense, although I figured with Indiana's right to work law they would be able to get out of it, but I think crbn is right, only the employees can vote to get rid of them. Time for a new vote?

The right to work law doesnt apply to companies with union employees who operate with multiple locations in multiple states.

 

[bonkers1919]

1400 more votes for Trump?

 

[churchmouse]

Exactly. They've got big government behind them.

It always comes down to big government.

There are many employees that will rely on the union to keep them employed when they act childish and make bad lifes decisions.

 

[PistolBob]

[/COLOR]Uhh. What? Both the market and the costs affect prices. Prices may trail cost fluctuations based on competition, but it all factors in.



A company has to be able to make enough profit to satisfy the shareholders and to remain solvent. There's no way around that. In this instance, Carrier foresaw cost issues due to their suppliers now being located in Mexico and their competition already being located there and opted to make the move now before those cost issues tanked them.

Owning a company is a large time and financial investment. Demanding that someone continue to make that investment while not making enough profit to be worthwhile is just plain silly.

Carrier is a brand name. The owners are United Technologies (UTEC) and they are moving MANY of their US plants to Mexico. The reasons claimed in Indy are bogus. They are not fleeing federal regulations they are simply moving to a cheaper workforce and a country with little to no environmental concerns. I hope the state and the feds are at least successful in making them pay back the over 8 million in tax abatement and credits they have gotten over the last year or so.

 

[PistolBob]

Do you have some utopia plan in mind where investors are overwhelmingly concerned with the well-being of employees? Especially employees who are sucking the company dry with their ridiculous wages and pensions?

3/4 of these unskilled workers are makingover $70,000 per year plus pensions and benefits. Are we really wondering why they want to move overseas? You think it's a lack of regulation that caused this? Oh, it's the investors who are greedy for wanting a return on their hard earned dollars?

THERE IS NO PENSION. There has been no pension program for the union workers in decades. They get a 401K like every other working slob in the country. I do taxes for a lot of people that work on the line at Carrier, the guys on the line gross in high 30's low 40's....the groups leaders about 5K-7K more. I have yet to see a single line worker that made more than 58K. UTEC is a greedy bunch of dog humpers....this is not their only plant they are re-locating to Mexico.

 

[churchmouse]

THERE IS NO PENSION. There has been no pension program for the union workers in decades. They get a 401K like every other working slob in the country. I do taxes for a lot of people that work on the line at Carrier, the guys on the line gross in high 30's low 40's....the groups leaders about 5K-7K more. I have yet to see a single line worker that made more than 58K. UTEC is a greedy bunch of dog humpers....this is not their only plant they are re-locating to Mexico.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[cobber]

Look at previous posts concerning Gov. regulations. This is where the problem is. To damn many regulating alphabet agency's dipping in and controlling.
None of this south of the border. The equipment has to be in place but does not have to be operated.
No OSHA/EPA/etc.

In place of regulation they'll get uncontrolled graft and corruption.

 

[churchmouse]

In place of regulation they'll get uncontrolled graft and corruption.

And it will be deserved.
I am looking at changing the brand of equipment we use from Carrier to Trane.
I can see a lot of crap coming out of that plant starting......well......today.

 

[17 squirrel]

THERE IS NO PENSION. There has been no pension program for the union workers in decades. They get a 401K like every other working slob in the country. I do taxes for a lot of people that work on the line at Carrier, the guys on the line gross in high 30's low 40's....the groups leaders about 5K-7K more. I have yet to see a single line worker that made more than 58K. UTEC is a greedy bunch of dog humpers....this is not their only plant they are re-locating to Mexico.

That's not true about United Technologys Companys and low pay, UT also owns Otis Elevator and as associate Union Employee, the Elevator Constructors Union ( IUEC ) as Journeymen easily make 65 to 120 thousand a year, depending on what local you belong to and what overtime you work. And they have a pension ( through the Union ) and 401 ( through Otis Elevator Co ) if you deside to invest in it.

Did not these union employees in Indy make the decision to go to work for Carrier ? Did they not deside to work there entire career in some cases for the pay and benifits they Voted on ?
If they felt they had such poor Union Representation they should have grabbed the bull by the horns and found another union to represent them or gotten rid of the Union all togeather..

 

[steveh_131]

Carrier is a brand name. The owners are Untied Technologies (UTEC) and they are moving MANY of their US plants to Mexico. The reasons claimed in Indy are bogus. They are not fleeing federal regulations they are simply moving to a cheaper workforce and a country with little to no environmental concerns. I hope the state and the feds are at least successful in making them pay back the over 8 million in tax abatement and credits they have gotten over the last year or so.

A cheaper workforce because of UNIONS who have a stranglehold because of REGULATIONS. So, again, it always comes back to greedy people using big government to push people around.

THERE IS NO PENSION. There has been no pension program for the union workers in decades. They get a 401K like every other working slob in the country. I do taxes for a lot of people that work on the line at Carrier, the guys on the line gross in high 30's low 40's....the groups leaders about 5K-7K more. I have yet to see a single line worker that made more than 58K. UTEC is a greedy bunch of dog humpers....this is not their only plant they are re-locating to Mexico.

Did you read the link I posted? You must be doing taxes for the lower tier. 3/4 of the workers make way more than that.

And by the way, 58k is ridiculous for an unskilled line worker. I know hard working guys with bachelor's in electrical engineering from Purdue and good GPA's who didn't make that much for many years out of college. I bet the guys who are designing and engineering these factory lines aren't even making $70k/year like some of these union guys.

The company isn't any more greedy than the union. They're all out to maximize their own paychecks. A free market would have kept things in check. Big Government ruined it, and now they're leaving with thousands of jobs. That is the bottom line.

 

[jd4320t]

I really appreciate those of you who're posting and actually know about this plant. For the rest who are just speculating or quoting a news article, you couldn't be more wrong.

Do some of you even know what kind of work is done there? Do you know what the skilled trades people do? Do you know what the operators do? Have you once stopped for just a second and realized how they get the $70,000 average? Have you thought about how much overtime people work?

If and I say if you've done any of these things then I ask have you ever actually worked in that type of manufacturing? I have and the money is deserved.

Stop talking about things you don't know so you can stroke your own ego on the internet. There are real, hardworking actual good people on here who work there and they deserve more than that.

 

[steveh_131]

I don't know that specific place. But I've worked for similar places. I'm one of the guys who designs the line that they work on. I design the HMI that they use to operate the equipment. I design the software that tracks their work and their mistakes.

I'm not denying that they work hard. I'm sure many do. But that doesn't mean their labor is worth $70,000 per year. The guy flipping burgers might work hard too, but it's on him to leverage that hard work in a way that can earn him the big bucks without union strong-arm tactics through government regulation.

And if they are paying these guys $20,000 in OT then something's wrong. They need more workers. They probably can't get them because of the union wanting to protect that OT.

 

[jd4320t]

But that makes you worth your high dollar wage right?

You are wrong. Period.