Carrier Corp. Moving out of Indy, 1,400 Jobs Gone

[steveh_131]

He has always been in demand. You may be an electrician, plumber, HVAC guy, welder, ironworker, whatever- own you skills and you own your future. Depend on the mill always being there, and you take your chances. Big companies don't have a great history of caring about the individual, so you have to care.

It's sad for these 1,400 families and many of them probably do have marketable skills. They will find jobs. Those who only knew how to do what they did will have a rough time for a while. Just a word to the wise.

Good advice. Skillsets are a valuable investment and can often be had at no cost other than your time.

Shoot, just my own DIY hobbyist activities, home repairs, auto repairs, computer repairs, etc. have probably provided me enough experience and know-how to land all kinds of jobs - or be self employed. At least enough to get by, if hard times come.

As to this plant, let's be certain to blame our government for all of this. Unions too, but they only have enough leverage to destroy companies because the government gives it to them. Lower taxes, deregulate, stop playing union enforcer - and watch our economy come back to life.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Those folks make no where near that money.
Maybe Management but not the general work force.

Actually they do, I'll post about it when I get home tonight. I actually quit them last year because of union BS games.

 

[Hookeye]

Your skills don't mean diddly when a bunch of others with same skills get canned.
Engineers were scrambling to take technician jobs after 2008.
Techs had to take lesser.
Many couldn't cope..............divorces and self exits common.
Lots of people left, and the subsequent low property values meant lower class folks could move in.

Interesting what has happened to Kokomo with GM/Delphi phase out and Chrysler hiring at tier 2.

Crime is up, school system a zoo. Gov bailout and strings..............what a success story.

 

[ghuns]

It's sad for these 1,400 families and many of them probably do have marketable skills. They will find jobs. Those who only knew how to do what they did will have a rough time for a while. Just a word to the wise.

Saw it happen to a lot of my mom's family in Ohio when International Harvester bit the dust. Makin big $$$, buyin big houses, and big cars, boats, motorcycles, etc. Not a one of them had a skill outside of that factory, or encouraged the younger ones to go get a skill. I was a kid when it all went to she-it, but even to me they seemed shortsighted.

 

[Frosty]

I heard it too. $100? Seems too low. There has to be VERY little materials involved and very little manpower to assemble it for a total cost of $100.

Those price points are not correct.
It does suck. I worked at that plant right out of High School until the Carter crash. Laid off and never looked back.

I didn't figure it was right, but I bet there's more to do with this than regulations. I'll bet it's mainly over $$$. Regardless it sucks for the people who are going to have to try to find a job making a decent wage in a tough economy, especially the older folks. I watched my dad go through that when the factory he worked at closed down after 30 years, he had a heck of a time finding a job, even with many years of upper management experience.

 

[mrjarrell]

Looks like Frosty is on to something. Donnelly talked with Carrier and they couldn't name even one regulation that was impeding them. You'd think they'd have a raft of them for their talking points. Nope. Donnelly would also like to see the government (one assumes both federal and state) get the money they gave Carrier back.

Donnelly Takes Carrier to Task | IndyPolitics.Org

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

The jist is that yes , the union had A LOT to do with it .

If you were hired on prior to their last signing of the current contract (2013 I think) you are making over $20.00 an hour .

Everybody after that started at $15.50 unless you were in a skilled trade position .

I talked to a supervisor friend there and he said they worked 9 weeks straight of 7 days a week (haven't spoke to him in a couple of months) so it might have been more for the entire 2015 year . OT after 8 hours so yeah plenty of folks making 70K over there .

There's even an actual Hoffa working there , a cousin of that one we all heard of . Even he was disgusted by what the union had turned into and he was a union for life kinda guy .

Where I worked ( the warehouse) you had to have at least 10 years seniority to bid into a job there .

I'm not gonna tell all the stories but you basically had to walk in and jihad somebody right in front of everybody on the dock and you still might not get fired permanently .

Permanently ??? Yes , you can get fired for being an idiot , not doing your job / whatever and the union would still manage to get your job back WITH back pay for the time you were off and no loss of seniority , I've seen it happen .

One job in particular , driving a fork lift feeding the line might only actually " work " 3-4 hours in a 10 hour shift and there were plenty of jobs like that .

Long story short , every bad preconception of union employees was on full display all day every day at that place .

If you weren't all about the union , you weren't welcome and would get harassed .

I'm not saying there weren't plenty of good folks there but they were vastly outnumbered by union ****heads .

 

[Frosty]

The jist is that yes , the union had A LOT to do with it .

If you were hired on prior to their last signing of the current contract (2013 I think) you are making over $20.00 an hour .

Everybody after that started at $15.50 unless you were in a skilled trade position .

I talked to a supervisor friend there and he said they worked 9 weeks straight of 7 days a week (haven't spoke to him in a couple of months) so it might have been more for the entire 2015 year . OT after 8 hours so yeah plenty of folks making 70K over there .

There's even an actual Hoffa working there , a cousin of that one we all heard of . Even he was disgusted by what the union had turned into and he was a union for life kinda guy .

Where I worked ( the warehouse) you had to have at least 10 years seniority to bid into a job there .

I'm not gonna tell all the stories but you basically had to walk in and jihad somebody right in front of everybody on the dock and you still might not get fired permanently .

Permanently ??? Yes , you can get fired for being an idiot , not doing your job / whatever and the union would still manage to get your job back WITH back pay for the time you were off and no loss of seniority , I've seen it happen .

One job in particular , driving a fork lift feeding the line might only actually " work " 3-4 hours in a 10 hour shift and there were plenty of jobs like that .

Long story short , every bad preconception of union employees was on full display all day every day at that place .

If you weren't all about the union , you weren't welcome and would get harassed .

I'm not saying there weren't plenty of good folks there but they were vastly outnumbered by union ****heads .

To bad the union ran them out of town. I used to be a big Union supporter, I was a union carpenter for almost 10 years. After I got out I realized how bad the unions actually make it for companies. How could they remain competitive paying 70k a year for a job that a nonunion employee would do for 30k? Heck, around here you'd be lucky to start out at $11 an hour in a factory.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

All we have to do to compete with Mexico is lower our or standard of living to match. No EPA, great. We can have Mexico City air. Minimum wage of about $5 a day and average wage under $15 a day. Let's see what consumer prices do now. Anyone believe they'll decrease? Or the extra margin will stay in the company?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

All we have to do to compete with Mexico is lower our or standard of living to match. No EPA, great. We can have Mexico City air. Minimum wage of about $5 a day and average wage under $15 a day. Let's see what consumer prices do now. Anyone believe they'll decrease? Or the extra margin will stay in the company?

Or vote (purchase) with your principles rather than your self interests. When given the option of multiple offerings, pick the one made in the US. It might cost you a few bucks but if the market saw there was a demand for American made products and people were willing to pay a bit of a premium to do so, there will be people there to take advantage of that market. But as long as price is a significant factor in the purchasing decision, who wouldn't do what you had to do to compete?

 

[wabashman]

Well this sucks. We are one of their major tooling suppliers.

 

[EyeCarry]

Doesn't surprise me. I was a Otis Elevator employee for 25 years before UTC pulled the plug on Bloomington. And just like the article stated, no I don't buy as much, can't buy as much. New car? forget it. Able to prepare for retirement as well as I would like? NOPE.
Good luck to those displaced this time. Best thing they can do is make use of UTC's scholar program that sounds like is still in place. Get/finish a degree and move on. Harder to do though for those older employees.

 

[tbhausen]

The jist is that yes , the union had A LOT to do with it .

If you were hired on prior to their last signing of the current contract (2013 I think) you are making over $20.00 an hour .

Everybody after that started at $15.50 unless you were in a skilled trade position .

I talked to a supervisor friend there and he said they worked 9 weeks straight of 7 days a week (haven't spoke to him in a couple of months) so it might have been more for the entire 2015 year . OT after 8 hours so yeah plenty of folks making 70K over there .

There's even an actual Hoffa working there , a cousin of that one we all heard of . Even he was disgusted by what the union had turned into and he was a union for life kinda guy .

Where I worked ( the warehouse) you had to have at least 10 years seniority to bid into a job there .

I'm not gonna tell all the stories but you basically had to walk in and jihad somebody right in front of everybody on the dock and you still might not get fired permanently .

Permanently ??? Yes , you can get fired for being an idiot , not doing your job / whatever and the union would still manage to get your job back WITH back pay for the time you were off and no loss of seniority , I've seen it happen .

One job in particular , driving a fork lift feeding the line might only actually " work " 3-4 hours in a 10 hour shift and there were plenty of jobs like that .

Long story short , every bad preconception of union employees was on full display all day every day at that place .

If you weren't all about the union , you weren't welcome and would get harassed .

I'm not saying there weren't plenty of good folks there but they were vastly outnumbered by union ****heads .

This doesn't surprise me the least bit, nor the fact they couldn't cite a regulation that led to the decision. I think if we're honest, we know what killed the Golden Goose.

As for "buying American", I'm all for it when the choice exists. I'll make an exception for some CZ's, though!

 

[tbhausen]

Looks like Frosty is on to something. Donnelly talked with Carrier and they couldn't name even one regulation that was impeding them. You'd think they'd have a raft of them for their talking points. Nope. Donnelly would also like to see the government (one assumes both federal and state) get the money they gave Carrier back.

Donnelly Takes Carrier to Task | IndyPolitics.Org

Wow, Donnelly flat-out roasted Carrier and Chris Nelson; he directly accused them of lying.

 

[CampingJosh]

I'd rather have Americans screwing Americans for the sole benefit of Americans, rather than Americans screwing Americans for the benefit of people in another country and a small group of Americans.

This sucks for the families that are losing their jobs. There's no way around that, and I feel for them.

On the other side of the coin, though, I do have a bit of a problem with this line of thinking. In many ways "buy American" is very much emphasizing the idea of the rich getting richer while the worldwide poor are shut out of opportunity.

Jobs in Mexico bring the standard of living up to near what welfare pays here.

There are a lot more job opportunities here than there; the US has basically no subsistence farmers, while Mexico has a large population of such. Those displaced from Carrier still have better job prospects than the average Mexican person.

Not to mention that developing economies end up being large importers, so from a long-term perspective this may end up being better for the world as a whole.

I hope that something new opens up in Indy that puts everyone back to work. But I also have trouble being mad about other people having their first opportunity to better themselves and enter the world economy.

 

[IndyDave1776]

This sucks for the families that are losing their jobs. There's no way around that, and I feel for them.

On the other side of the coin, though, I do have a bit of a problem with this line of thinking. In many ways "buy American" is very much emphasizing the idea of the rich getting richer while the worldwide poor are shut out of opportunity.

Jobs in Mexico bring the standard of living up to near what welfare pays here.

There are a lot more job opportunities here than there; the US has basically no subsistence farmers, while Mexico has a large population of such. Those displaced from Carrier still have better job prospects than the average Mexican person.

Not to mention that developing economies end up being large importers, so from a long-term perspective this may end up being better for the world as a whole.

I hope that something new opens up in Indy that puts everyone back to work. But I also have trouble being mad about other people having their first opportunity to better themselves and enter the world economy.

You are overlooking some critical facts here. First and foremost, it isn't that I don't sympathize with people living in the conditions you find in some other countries, but it is not our collective responsibility to accept having our economy trashed for their benefit. They are simply not entitled to what our nation has built. They have been independent approximately as long as we have, and also had a strong founding influence from a European world power. We made more of our opportunity than they did. That is NOT our problem.

Further, it is significant that not only do we not have some things like subsistence agriculture here, it is not possible to have it here. You cannot pay your [STRIKE]government rent[/STRIKE] property tax on those terms, which is especially bothersome given that we are moving toward a significantly lower standard of income relative to cost of living that the last few generations, yet have an increasingly demanding tax structure.

Even better yet, it will not be possible for our people to effectively recover without artificial barriers being removed. Property tax would be a good start. Licensing schemes, many of which have absolutely nothing to do with the activity being licensed, also need some significant changes. Prohibitions on selling produce to informed and willing customers need to be eliminated. If I were actually still awake, I could carry this thought on much further. Maybe next time.

 

[CampingJosh]

That is two separate issues, Dave. I'll respond in two parts.

They are simply not entitled to what our nation has built.

"Our nation" is a really collectivist view on it; people built the various businesses, and the owners of each business are certainly entitled to operate their own business in the way they see fit.

Further, it is significant that not only do we not have some things like subsistence agriculture here, it is not possible to have it here. You cannot pay your [STRIKE]government rent[/STRIKE] property tax on those terms, which is especially bothersome given that we are moving toward a significantly lower standard of income relative to cost of living that the last few generations, yet have an increasingly demanding tax structure.

Even better yet, it will not be possible for our people to effectively recover without artificial barriers being removed. Property tax would be a good start. Licensing schemes, many of which have absolutely nothing to do with the activity being licensed, also need some significant changes. Prohibitions on selling produce to informed and willing customers need to be eliminated. If I were actually still awake, I could carry this thought on much further. Maybe next time.

I have no disagreement with this.

 

[IndyDave1776]

That is two separate issues, Dave. I'll respond in two parts.



"Our nation" is a really collectivist view on it; people built the various businesses, and the owners of each business are certainly entitled to operate their own business in the way they see fit.



I have no disagreement with this.

I can go along with that with the corollary that the rest of us can vote on the matter with our check books when the time comes. That is a lot different from a social justice argument about the rightness of excluding foreign nationals from our economy.

 

[17 squirrel]

Doesn't surprise me. I was a Otis Elevator employee for 25 years before UTC pulled the plug on Bloomington. And just like the article stated, no I don't buy as much, can't buy as much. New car? forget it. Able to prepare for retirement as well as I would like? NOPE.
Good luck to those displaced this time. Best thing they can do is make use of UTC's scholar program that sounds like is still in place. Get/finish a degree and move on. Harder to do though for those older employees.

I have a few friends that are Otis field employees out of Indy.
One worked in the test towers in Bloomington for quite a few years until they moved to the new factory / test towers and engineering building in the Carolinas..
He moved with the test towers.

Weren't you factory guys represented by the " Electric Union " ?

 

[actaeon277]

Or vote (purchase) with your principles rather than your self interests. When given the option of multiple offerings, pick the one made in the US. It might cost you a few bucks but if the market saw there was a demand for American made products and people were willing to pay a bit of a premium to do so, there will be people there to take advantage of that market. But as long as price is a significant factor in the purchasing decision, who wouldn't do what you had to do to compete?

It's not "competing" when you make one side follow rules, but not the other side.