Carrier Corp. Moving out of Indy, 1,400 Jobs Gone

[BehindBlueI's]

Or vote (purchase) with your principles rather than your self interests. When given the option of multiple offerings, pick the one made in the US. It might cost you a few bucks but if the market saw there was a demand for American made products and people were willing to pay a bit of a premium to do so, there will be people there to take advantage of that market. But as long as price is a significant factor in the purchasing decision, who wouldn't do what you had to do to compete?

You think prices will go down?

I used to be fanatical about buy American. It was a huge PITA. Try finding 4E width shoes made in the US. Pants. Forget electronics. I went 8 years without a television.

I remember finding a microwave with GE Appliance Park - Louisville stamped on the box. I bought it. My uncle, a recent retiree, told me they hadn't made microwaves in Louisville in years. They may put them in boxes there, but they ain't made there.

I gave up. I still won't buy a foreign name plate car, but you can rightfully argue some of them are more "American" than domestic name plates.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's not "competing" when you make one side follow rules, but not the other side.

Well, it is...based on the rules the government has established.

 

[ghuns]

I still won't buy a foreign name plate car, but you can rightfully argue some of them are more "American" than domestic name plates.

I build tooling for the automotive industry. I admire your loyalty to US brands, but I can assure you, they DO NOT return the favor. We quote a lot of jobs for Ford. They are often done reverse auction style, lowest bidder wins the package. They go as far as to specify that certain parts of the package MUST go offshore, meaning China. We don't even bother chasing GM work. It pretty much all goes to China, even some of their design and engineering work.

At least the Japanese still have sufficient hatred for China that they will pay more to have jobs built over here. But little by little, even they are letting the economic realities temper their negative feelings towards the Chinese.

I have told both my teenaged kids, the biggest advantage they can give themselves in their future job search is to learn Spanish and/or Mandarin Chinese.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You think prices will go down?

I used to be fanatical about buy American. It was a huge PITA. Try finding 4E width shoes made in the US. Pants. Forget electronics. I went 8 years without a television.

I remember finding a microwave with GE Appliance Park - Louisville stamped on the box. I bought it. My uncle, a recent retiree, told me they hadn't made microwaves in Louisville in years. They may put them in boxes there, but they ain't made there.

I gave up. I still won't buy a foreign name plate car, but you can rightfully argue some of them are more "American" than domestic name plates.

I didn't contend prices would go down...only that where there is a sufficient demand, somebody will attempt to profit from it. In fact, I mentioned there would likely be a premium to the cost for making such purchasing decisions.

And yes, I realize at this point, this is mostly a theoretical discussion...because not enough people care. There are not enough people that will pay 25-50% more for a 55" HD TV or $15 for a $3 Rural King T-shirt (grabbing numbers out you know where).

 

[Tactically Fat]

I bought it. My uncle, a recent retiree, told me they hadn't made microwaves in Louisville in years. They may put them in boxes there, but they ain't made there.

Related: The Microwaves may not be made there, but many other GE appliances are. Granted, I only know this because my few-months plugged in GE Spaceship of a fridge had to be repaired. Twice. The second repair guy was an actual GE employee - trained at the factory in Louisville. He was quite proud that the things are made there.

 

[KittySlayer]

I have told both my teenaged kids, the biggest advantage they can give themselves in their future job search is to learn Spanish and/or Mandarin Chinese.

Great advice for your kids (or for us adults). I would recommend Spanish just because of the numbers here in the US and I would imagine most Chinese you would deal with in the states are already bilingual. People who are successful (measured by money or title) typically are supervising other workers. If you can learn Spanish you will be able to supervise (or at least work with) a rapidly growing part of our work force. In addition, as plants relocate in Mexico someone needs to help make the transition happen and those people will command some premium pay for their knowledge and skills that they are able to communicate to the new workers. Think about the leg up this would give you over the current crop of senior managers who are old, grumpy and refuse to learn Spanish and think a wall is the magic solution.

 

[Crbn79]

Honestly, looking at my heat exchanger, it has one circuit board about 7 inches by 12 inches, a big fan, and some metal. $100 might be low but I would bet it's closer to that than $1,000.

And you only need to invest in about $10,000,000 I'm machines to build those parts your self. Should we start construction in your 100,000 sqft facility? I'm off work Saturday and can help move things around.

Although, since you find all those things on your "heat exchanger" I won't be investing any of my own money in your endeavor, and I'll need to be paid cash up front.

 

[SumtnFancy]

https://youtu.be/Y3ttxGMQOrY

Just came across a video of the announcement. Sorry if this was already posted, I didn't see it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I didn't contend prices would go down...only that where there is a sufficient demand, somebody will attempt to profit from it. In fact, I mentioned there would likely be a premium to the cost for making such purchasing decisions.

I mean specifically Carrier prices. If this is just a move to be able to compete on price, then shouldn't prices go down? Or do you think prices will remain the same and simply translate into additional profit?

 

[steveh_131]

I mean specifically Carrier prices. If this is just a move to be able to compete on price, then shouldn't prices go down? Or do you think prices will remain the same and simply translate into additional profit?

They'll pocket the profit until the market forces them to lower prices. There are too many factors to be able to predict that.

Deregulation and lower taxes are the only solution to this problem.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I mean specifically Carrier prices. If this is just a move to be able to compete on price, then shouldn't prices go down? Or do you think prices will remain the same and simply translate into additional profit?

I don't know. I could easily imagine it would improve profit margins. If I were a stockholder and I really cared about return on investment, I would applaud this move, especially if it meant more/better return on my investments.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

They'll pocket the profit until the market forces them to lower prices. There are too many factors to be able to predict that.

Deregulation and lower taxes are the only solution to this problem.

I think "pocket" is a bit simplistic. They may use the additional money to apply towards research and development or they may return it to their stockholders.

 

[steveh_131]

I think "pocket" is a bit simplistic. They may use the additional money to apply towards research and development or they may return it to their stockholders.

Yeah, that could happen too. Who knows. The big point is that we need to lower taxes and deregulate.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yeah, that could happen too. Who knows. The big point is that we need to lower taxes and deregulate.

I'm good with that.

 

[ghuns]

People who are successful (measured by money or title) typically are supervising other workers.

The ones I know that are crazy successful, at least by the $$$ yardstick, got that way by outsourcing their manufacturing work to China.

The company I work for refused to outsource work to China for a long time. It was a big reason I came to work here. Finally, when Ford said, you can't even quote this 40 tool package without agreeing to send 10 of the tools to China, we gave in.

The boss and an account manager went to China and visited several shops. We picked the one we felt best about and sent them some work. It exceeded our expectations. On one particular job, our cost to source materials in the US was much higher than their price for the finished job+shipping. Their quality was at least equal to ours, and they put 8000 pounds of steel on an airplane and shipped it to us. There's no fighting that math.

I knew a guy who went to work repping for a Chinese tool shop 20 years ago. I called him lots of unflattering names over the years. I feel kinda bad about it now. He just saw the light a lot earlier than me. He always said that the only way to compete with them was to make them as fat and lazy as us, as fast as we possibly can. Help them create a large middle class who wants flat screens, side by side refrigerators and Buicks. That's probably a good thought, but then the work will just move to India.

 

[CHCRandy]

Here is video of employees being told. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwz6vVXtgkc

 

[BehindBlueI's]

They'll pocket the profit until the market forces them to lower prices. There are too many factors to be able to predict that.

Deregulation and lower taxes are the only solution to this problem.

An admission the market sets prices and that costs do not? Progress!

So, let's be honest. Its not about bring competitive unless we see price drops undercutting current market price. Else its just to increase profit margin. That's not evil, but its also not mandatory to being competitive.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Here is video of employees being told. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwz6vVXtgkc

Ouch

 

[Leadeye]

Over the years I've watched the TV manufacturing business move from the east, to the midwest, to the south, to mexico and now to china. Maybe it will end up in africa.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Over the years I've watched the TV manufacturing business move from the east, to the midwest, to the south, to mexico and now to china. Maybe it will end up in africa.

True. Sad all those people are losing their jobs, but the company's loyalty is to its stockholders, no its employees. The is one of the reasons I don't believe in a pure free market.