Asked to leave for OC

[esrice]

Again you sir prove you are a moron.

Ok looks like you're up next. You just lost your right to continue posting in this thread.

Consider this your official in-thread warning.

So here's your in-thread warning for multiple violations of the rules.

Post back in this thread again and you'll be sent on a mandatory vacation.

Guys, posting your opinions on matters is just fine. You cross the line when you start directly attacking members and name-calling. If anyone needs a refresher on the rules, please see the link in my signature.

 

[littletommy]

This thread is great! Might make my top 10 of all time.

 

[jeremy]

There are a lot of uneducated, simple-minded people who post on this forum. For the most part, it's the same on any website forum. There is nothing wrong with being uneducated or simple-minded; it describes the majority of Americans. We come here from a quite gregarious background of experiences, educations and intellects. With that preface.....

We can carry openly in a lot of places. We can do so without infringing on anyone else in many of them. However, there are places where open carry is trumped by another, MUCH MORE IMPORTANT right: Property rights. If you want to carry openly on a public sidewalk, you can do so all day long w/o infringing on someone else's rights. The moment you enter a private business, however, you bring your openly carried gun into an environment where other patrons may exit the store solely because you are there. If so, you have cost the merchant business. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CARRY A FIREARM, OPENLY OR CONCEALED, ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. The property owner, or their employees who are charged with protecting the bottom-line of the business, can and SHOULD ask you to leave if it is their belief that your presence is costing them a dime in potential profit. No, they are NOT going against "Indiana law", Kroger policy, etc. Educate yourselves before you spew such nonsense which immediately categorizes you with the uneducated.

No, it is NOT Kroger policy that you can carry openly in their store. Kroger has no stated policy either way. Kroger's property rights must ALWAYS trump your 2nd Amendment rights. Always. It doesn't take a store manager to ask you to leave. The moment you are asked to leave by an employee of the store, you are legally obligated to do so. There is ZERO reason for someone to openly carry a gun in a grocery store. Someone who does so not only demonstrates an intellect & maturity insufficient to be carrying a gun in the first place, they also become the enemy of all who responsibly carry a gun. It is IDIOTS who are constantly trying to provoke by openly carrying their gun, so they can be somebody, who threatens the gun rights of all of us. It is this nonsense that will eventually cost all of us the right to carry, open or not. Use some common sense.

After reading this I am a little confused, and need some clarification. Which group are you the educated, or the uneducated?!

 

[Kutnupe14]

After reading this I am a little confused. Which group are you the educated, or the uneducated?!

If you are in the educated group I think you should ask wherever it is that is your alma mata if you could possibly receive a refund....

I've now started following this again, but what issues do you disagree with that Jake posted. I think his assessment is pretty spot on.

 

[jeremy]

I've now started following this again, but what issues do you disagree with that Jake posted. I think his assessment is pretty spot on.

You are kidding me right?!

 

[Fedempl]

I've now started following this again, but what issues do you disagree with that Jake posted. I think his assessment is pretty spot on.

What part of his assessment do you think is spot on? The part of OC'ers being idiots or we lack intellect & maturity insufficient to be carrying a gun in the first place and that we also become the enemy of all who responsibly carry a gun.

Cause IMHO Jake is way of base and sounds like an anti-gun person from the Illinois.

 

[Rookie]

Jake, you may be a little confused. Seems everyone can spew nonsense.

Kroger cannot suspend your rights. Ever. Kroger (or any other private property owner) CAN exercise their right to ask you to leave for any reason.

 

[mtgasten]

There are a lot of uneducated, simple-minded people who post on this forum. For the most part, it's the same on any website forum. There is nothing wrong with being uneducated or simple-minded; it describes the majority of Americans. We come here from a quite gregarious background of experiences, educations and intellects. With that preface.....

We can carry openly in a lot of places. We can do so without infringing on anyone else in many of them. However, there are places where open carry is trumped by another, MUCH MORE IMPORTANT right: Property rights. If you want to carry openly on a public sidewalk, you can do so all day long w/o infringing on someone else's rights. The moment you enter a private business, however, you bring your openly carried gun into an environment where other patrons may exit the store solely because you are there. If so, you have cost the merchant business. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CARRY A FIREARM, OPENLY OR CONCEALED, ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. The property owner, or their employees who are charged with protecting the bottom-line of the business, can and SHOULD ask you to leave if it is their belief that your presence is costing them a dime in potential profit. No, they are NOT going against "Indiana law", Kroger policy, etc. Educate yourselves before you spew such nonsense which immediately categorizes you with the uneducated.

No, it is NOT Kroger policy that you can carry openly in their store. Kroger has no stated policy either way. Kroger's property rights must ALWAYS trump your 2nd Amendment rights. Always. It doesn't take a store manager to ask you to leave. The moment you are asked to leave by an employee of the store, you are legally obligated to do so. There is ZERO reason for someone to openly carry a gun in a grocery store. Someone who does so not only demonstrates an intellect & maturity insufficient to be carrying a gun in the first place, they also become the enemy of all who responsibly carry a gun. It is IDIOTS who are constantly trying to provoke by openly carrying their gun, so they can be somebody, who threatens the gun rights of all of us. It is this nonsense that will eventually cost all of us the right to carry, open or not. Use some common sense.

sounds like more liberal propaganda to me

 

[Fedempl]

sounds like more liberal propaganda to me

Maybe Jake writes for Change.org and is actually from Chicago. He's probably also a Fast and Furious supporter.

 

[Cpl. Klinger]

someone in a executive position that will likely be so ticked off that a consumer took the time and trouble to go that high up that heads would roll over it.

From my experience, they don't really care that high up. They just push the matter back down to the division. But then again, YMMV.

 

[Fedempl]

From my experience, they don't really care that high up. They just push the matter back down to the division. But then again, YMMV.

Basically, you are correct. It has been my experience with big business that the Corp. Office is more concerned about the bottom line than they are about customer service. Even at the local level I have been told if you don't like it go elsewhere and do your shopping.

It's a real shame that no one cares anymore about the customer, OC'er or not.

 

[Cpl. Klinger]

I would, and have, told people to f##k off when approached about carrying. See what they do. Manager:"I'm calling the police" Me:"Good, they can explain my right to carry." Or, Manager:" You can't carry in here, store policy" Me: "show me the policy." And the maybe a "f##k off" and leave. Also, get the name of the security company and rant to them about their " trained, professional security officers" not knowing the policies for the places they "secure" I hope everything goes well with your issue. I have carried at Kroger many times. I would also mention the story of the employee who shot a robber with the gun he was carrying.

You know, when you do that, you don't help the cause much. I care about OC and my 2A rights as much as the next guy, but being a jerk about it helps no one. I'll be calm, cool, collected, and explain my position. If they want to be pains in the rear, then I'll leave, complain up the chain and vote with my wallet. What you are doing is make the rest of us out to be what they think we are - gun toting, slack jawed, uneducated yokels with no sense of tact and a complete me me me complex. Speak for yourself if you wish, but don't claim to speak for me. I don't need your kind of assistance.

 

[Cpl. Klinger]

Basically, you are correct. It has been my experience with big business that the Corp. Office is more concerned about the bottom line than they are about customer service. Even at the local level I have been told if you don't like it go elsewhere and do your shopping.

It's a real shame that no one cares anymore about the customer, OC'er or not.

This is why there needs to be an OC event. Nothing like 50-60 (or maybe more) folks exercising their 2A rights under store policy and state law to reinforce the fact that we are paying attention. Then the higher ups just might pay attention themselves.

 

[Fedempl]

This is why there needs to be an OC event. Nothing like 50-60 (or maybe more) folks exercising their 2A rights under store policy and state law to reinforce the fact that we are paying attention. Then the higher ups just might pay attention themselves.

I agree, we need to let the business community know that their customers are law abidng citizen that carry guns, whether CC or OC. Then they would understand that we contribute greatly to that their bottom line without causing problems.

At one point time a couple of months ago, there was a poster attempting to get a meeting together, but have not heard a peep since.

 

[Farmritch]

I deleted my first post but this thread is like a flame and I am the moth.

Somebody please explain to me why, when you are in someone else's house and they ask you to leave, why you don't just say, "OK" and then leave?

Why do you force that misguided person into a corner by arguing with them in front of other people that they normally give direction to?

Surely you don't think that they will see the wisdom and profound truth of your argument and relent, smile and say that you are right? In front of their employees?

Why do you think making a scene by not leaving quietly helps your cause?

Because you have to stand for something or you will fall for anything.
We are Americans and we are tired of the uneducated pushing us and others around, just because they think you are doing something wrong

 

[Fedempl]

I deleted my first post but this thread is like a flame and I am the moth.

Somebody please explain to me why, when you are in someone else's house and they ask you to leave, why you don't just say, "OK" and then leave?

Why do you force that misguided person into a corner by arguing with them in front of other people that they normally give direction to?

Surely you don't think that they will see the wisdom and profound truth of your argument and relent, smile and say that you are right? In front of their employees?

Why do you think making a scene by not leaving quietly helps your cause?

Because you have to stand for something or you will fall for anything.
We are Americans and we are tired of the uneducated pushing us and others around, just because they think you are doing something wrong

You are right, we must stand up for our rights. As we all can see the Government will take them when we least expect it, right from under our noses.

Explaining my rights to someone is not backing them into a corner. If they are asking me leave I have a right to know why, then explain to them that I am within my legal right to carry a gun.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Moral of story? CC

Right, hide it to protect yourself from the ignorant and uninformed who are otherwise no threat to you.

By no means call their BS with civil discussion, that could only lead to...

well...

um, just know that it would be very bad.

And I thought you had no morals...

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

There is ZERO reason for someone to openly carry a gun in a grocery store. Someone who does so not only demonstrates an intellect & maturity insufficient to be carrying a gun in the first place, they also become the enemy of all who responsibly carry a gun. It is IDIOTS who are constantly trying to provoke by openly carrying their gun, so they can be somebody, who threatens the gun rights of all of us. It is this nonsense that will eventually cost all of us the right to carry, open or not. Use some common sense.

Oh wait... that is completely different though, right?

The only reason that is viewed differently than the average Joe LTCH holder open carrying is because people are accustomed to seeing police officers openly carry firearms. Since it is commonplace to see police open carry, and our past experiences lead us to believe that they do not intend to shoot us - we perceive it as safe and feel comfortable with it.

When I notice someone open carrying in a public place, that alone does not make me view them as a threat. Since I am used to seeing people carry openly, and my past experiences leads me to believe that does not mean they intend to shoot me - I perceive it as safe and feel comfortable with it.

If more people carried openly, more people might just feel comfortable with it.

 

[ATM]

And I thought you had no morals...

I haven't done much mushroom hunting this season, but they are delicious.

 

[Jake46184]

Oh wait... that is completely different though, right?

The only reason that is viewed differently than the average Joe LTCH holder open carrying is because people are accustomed to seeing police officers openly carry firearms. Since it is commonplace to see police open carry, and our past experiences lead us to believe that they do not intend to shoot us - we perceive it as safe and feel comfortable with it.

When I notice someone open carrying in a public place, that alone does not make me view them as a threat. Since I am used to seeing people carry openly, and my past experiences leads me to believe that does not mean they intend to shoot me - I perceive it as safe and feel comfortable with it.

If more people carried openly, more people might just feel comfortable with it.

Wrong. The cop has passed multiple tests to determine if he has the maturity and intellect to carry in such an environment. He has been trained regarding use of his weapon and situations he might encounter. He is calm, level-headed, and trusted by the community. Society recognizes the hurdle he has jumped for the privilege. So does the store owner, who doesn't see him as a threat to his profit margin.

If you're really trying to convince anyone that he is equal to the backwoods bumpkins who are on an ego trip in your neighborhood Kroger, just looking for someone to provoke (it's the only reason they open carry in the first place), you are going to have to try much harder. Different as night and day.