Spazzmodicus
Sharpshooter
If more people wore thongs in Kroger...
it would be Wal-Mart.
It's completely impossible to not laugh out loud at some point in this thread.
More humor is what the world needs.
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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Asked to leave for OC
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It's completely impossible to not laugh out loud at some point in this thread.
More humor is what the world needs.
Spazzmodicus
Sharpshooter
While I do not have a problem with your comments - in fact I agree with most - you are kicking this site's sacred cow right in the udder.
You might want to clarify that you are not advocating running from your God given right to OC just to placate public idiots? Also, that you are not calling OC'rs "attention whores". Also, that you are not passing tactical judgement on OC. I think that might cover it...
OK here goes:
1. There will always be public idiots that will never be placated, educated, informed or conducive to the purposes of an OC'er. They likely well outnumber the OC'ers and probably will for some time to come. Concealed carry is also my God-given right. That is my choice. Do you mind telling me why my preference for my God-given right is wrong?
I prefer the element of surprise. I prefer blending in and being a nobody. I need no crutches for my ego. Again, if the shoe fits, then I'm talking to you. If it doesn't then there's no need to take offense. I'm not throwing a giant blanket over all OC'ers. But I do believe OC'ers will encounter more "situations" than CC'ers. Sometimes they might be good situations. Sometimes not. I prefer to get in and get out of stores or wherever and get on with my business. To me it's the difference of fighting styles between soldiers of the Revolutionary war and Green Berets. The soldiers in the Revolution didn't cower or hide. They loaded their firearms and stood there like real men and fired. Then they died real fast. If a Green Beret is doing his job right, the enemy doesn't know who he is or where he is.
2. I feel no need to educate the public concerning my or their right to carry firearms openly. I feel that their is more harm than good done by those who wish to OC but are lacking in the tact and civility when it comes to conflict resolution and encountering public opposition to OC'ing. More good could be achieved by veteran OC'ers training those who want to OC. OC'ers are always talking about "educating". Why not start with other OC'ers?
You want to further your cause? Take a OC noob out with you and show them how to politely handle the public and any confrontation encountered with OC'ing. Far too many OC'ers put the gun in their holster and a chip on their shoulder before they even walk out of their home. Some even have that chip super-glued to their shoulder and sleep in it and everything. (heh heh) Some OC'ers are indeed "attention whores" as you put it. Some are not. Some do a fine job of demonstrating mature OC'ing. This is not, nor has it ever been about them.
That should do for now.
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Spazzmodicus
Sharpshooter
Why? It's a good idea but flawed I believe. While you're 'desensitizing' the public by OC'ing, they're getting hyper-sensitized by the liberal media and neighborhood crime reports.
I believe OC'ers, while meaning well, shut the mind of somef people simply because folks aren't expecting to see a gun on a dude when they go to pick up a gallon of milk and panty hose. It serves no good purpose to rattle somebody's nerves. The numbers of OC'ers are just far too small to achieve what is hoped to be achieved concerning desensitizing the public to OC'ing.
I have impressed a number of people by standing there talking to them with a Sig on my hip. Once I could ascertain the mindset of the individual by reason of the topic of discussion, have revealed that I was "packing". Some didn't believe and had to be shown. I've had nothing but good encounters with my own "education" sessions and have never been asked to leave anywhere or remove my firearm. And there's less of a chance of a big neon sign hanging over my head that says "armed". Sure OC'ing might thwart some crime but the OC'er better have eyes in the back of his head at all times because an OC'er is an easy 'marked' target for the career criminal.
How do you desensitize an irrational phobia? Personally, I don't have the time or desire. Their phobia is not my problem. I will not stop wearing t-shirts with spiders on them just because someone may have arachnophobia. I will not remove my "Obama Sucks" bumper sticker because some liberal weenie professor at Purdue finds it offensive. And I will not stop OCing just to placate those with an irrational fear of guns.
Personally, when I enter a venue, and see someone OCing, I feel SAFER. But then, I do not suffer from this irrational fear.
Hammerhead
Master
Spazz, while you are making a point, you're looking at it from the wrong angle.
You see CC as the "best" option and you ask people to convince you otherwise, going so far as to ask why your "god given CC right" is wrong. You'll find that those of us who OC regularly (95% of the time I do) will tell you that CC is a viable option, and will not give you grief over your choice. However, you, along with a lot of other people who CC regularly for whatever reason continue to come after OCers with the "why the hell do you OC, you should CC" (not saying that this is your statement here at the moment).
Do you see the difference? OCers don't give two bacon strips about how you carry generally. CCers typically only argue for CC. You can find this in almost every thread that devolves into a CC/OC argument.
And for the record, I have never had anything but positive experiences with my OC, only ever been asked by a LEO once to cover who dropped it when I said "No," and have educated many people who've asked me about carry, laws, and my sidearm. You'll also find that most OCers don't go out looking for confrontation, but typically are the most prepared (i.e. video, audio, informed about the law and their rights) when confronted because they choose to be (yes, there are exceptions to this). We don't expect to be bothered, but we do know how to react when it happens. Honestly, I love having discussions about carry and the law when people ask me. I don't expect to change the world one conversation at a time, but I'm trying.
You see CC as the "best" option and you ask people to convince you otherwise, going so far as to ask why your "god given CC right" is wrong. You'll find that those of us who OC regularly (95% of the time I do) will tell you that CC is a viable option, and will not give you grief over your choice. However, you, along with a lot of other people who CC regularly for whatever reason continue to come after OCers with the "why the hell do you OC, you should CC" (not saying that this is your statement here at the moment).
Do you see the difference? OCers don't give two bacon strips about how you carry generally. CCers typically only argue for CC. You can find this in almost every thread that devolves into a CC/OC argument.
And for the record, I have never had anything but positive experiences with my OC, only ever been asked by a LEO once to cover who dropped it when I said "No," and have educated many people who've asked me about carry, laws, and my sidearm. You'll also find that most OCers don't go out looking for confrontation, but typically are the most prepared (i.e. video, audio, informed about the law and their rights) when confronted because they choose to be (yes, there are exceptions to this). We don't expect to be bothered, but we do know how to react when it happens. Honestly, I love having discussions about carry and the law when people ask me. I don't expect to change the world one conversation at a time, but I'm trying.
I wonder if the same type of person who will put a bumper sticker on thier car talking about how the president of the country they live in sucks, is the same type of person that feels the need to OC for a political statement.
I think we need to do a poll.
Do you Oc?
Do you have bumper stickers putting down polititians?
Do you do both?
It never occured to me that OCers are really just political activists.
The Occupy Wall Street of the gun lobby.
Really, every lobby needs activists, CCers should not put them down.
I think we need to do a poll.
Do you Oc?
Do you have bumper stickers putting down polititians?
Do you do both?
It never occured to me that OCers are really just political activists.
The Occupy Wall Street of the gun lobby.
Really, every lobby needs activists, CCers should not put them down.
I don't OC to be an activist. I OC because it is a choice, and I have a right to CHOOSE it. And I don't OC every time I carry.
OC happens to be the most COMFORTABLE way to carry for me.
You have t-shirts with spiders on them?
LOL...I do have one old one. I also have a t-shirt with OC/CC on it in AC/DC font style (thanks to Titanium Frost for the great looking shirts).
Though my shirt that draws the most looks and comments, especially when I wear it to the state fair, is my PETA shirt. Farmers don't like it, till they get close enough to see the small print BELOW the PETA...that says: People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. then they want to know where to buy one.
blamecharles
Master
I have a shirt that has" No. Dude seriously F*&K you." On it. If you think the OC/CC argument is good you should see the 1st A arguments i have on that one. For the record i don't wear it often but i OC almost every day.
Spazzmodicus
Sharpshooter
I agree sorta' Hammerhead. Let me rephrase it this way:
CC'ing is the best for me.
Some OC'ers Should carry their gun however they see fit.
Some OC'ers should carry CC because they have no public relations skills.
The OC'ers with no PR skills(and I have seen them in action) hurt the image of all carry permit holders in general.
While you or others may not give two strips of bacon how anybody carries, I have a vested interest in this topic, namely the continuation of my right to carry at all.
We've all been involved in some group activity in which somebody took a little too much liberty somehow or another, which then resulted in "no more of this or that allowed". Hence the saying 'one or a few can mess it up for everybody else'.
I'm not at all against OC'ers. I think it's cool when somebody carries that way. If I see an OC'er going about his business without any altercation then I think "Cool!"....and I think nothing else about it. It's the OC'ers that get heated when confronted that makes me cringe. Like I said, I have seen them. They don't help anything at all except for the argument of the alarmed people.
My biggest reason I choose not to CC is pretty simple for me.
I prefer to carry a full size firearm comfortably and would rather not stir up commotion when my pistol prints hard or (when OWB CC) have the tip of my
holster/barrel stick out underneath my shirt. My reason? Bad guys hide their guns... for obvious reasons. I don't want to be confused as one.
If you can pull off CC without being noticed.... I'm all for it!!! And support your method completely. It's just generally not for me.
Meanwhile, as much as Liberally Larry or Anti-Gun Grandma may disagree with my right to carry, they're likely to come to conclusion with a bit of common sense that
if I have a gun openly exposed on my hip.... I probably have NOTHING to hide.
.........But who says' anyone has common sense anymore, right?
For the record, I've never had a negative confrontation before... Carry every day, every where. When confronted? Be polite. Be open-minded. Be informative. And carry yourself in a positive manner.
-Because you're absolutely right, Spazz - If you have no people skills or struggle to present yourself positively, confrontations probably won't turn out well.
I prefer to carry a full size firearm comfortably and would rather not stir up commotion when my pistol prints hard or (when OWB CC) have the tip of my
holster/barrel stick out underneath my shirt. My reason? Bad guys hide their guns... for obvious reasons. I don't want to be confused as one.
If you can pull off CC without being noticed.... I'm all for it!!! And support your method completely. It's just generally not for me.
Meanwhile, as much as Liberally Larry or Anti-Gun Grandma may disagree with my right to carry, they're likely to come to conclusion with a bit of common sense that
if I have a gun openly exposed on my hip.... I probably have NOTHING to hide.
.........But who says' anyone has common sense anymore, right?
For the record, I've never had a negative confrontation before... Carry every day, every where. When confronted? Be polite. Be open-minded. Be informative. And carry yourself in a positive manner.
-Because you're absolutely right, Spazz - If you have no people skills or struggle to present yourself positively, confrontations probably won't turn out well.
Cpl. Klinger
Sharpshooter
If more folks would follow this advice, we would all be better off. Although I'll probably use a slight bit of humor at my first confrontation with the public before explaining the laws and the fact that I'm the least dangerous person around.
Spazzmodicus
Sharpshooter
Well for the record, I wear a drop-leg when I go fishing. But I wear my wife's nightie for concealment when I go into Walmart to buy bait (and look at thongs) because I don't have anything long enough to conceal a drop-leg holster.
Why? It's a good idea but flawed I believe. While you're 'desensitizing' the public by OC'ing, they're getting hyper-sensitized by the liberal media and neighborhood crime reports. So we should help enable the media and pander to the hyper sensitized public.
I believe OC'ers, while meaning well, shut the mind of somef people simply because folks aren't expecting to see a gun on a dude when they go to pick up a gallon of milk and panty hose. It serves no good purpose to rattle somebody's nerves. The numbers of OC'ers are just far too small to achieve what is hoped to be achieved concerning desensitizing the public to OC'ing. Wait wait wait.. Just above you said you didn't mean to throw a blanket over all OCer?
I have impressed a number of people by standing there talking to them with a Sig on my hip. Once I could ascertain the mindset of the individual by reason of the topic of discussion, have revealed that I was "packing". Why? Concealed means concealed. Some didn't believe and had to be shown. I've had nothing but good encounters with my own "education" sessions and have never been asked to leave anywhere or remove my firearm. And there's less of a chance of a big neon sign hanging over my head that says "armed". Sure OC'ing might thwart some crime but the OC'er better have eyes in the back of his head at all times because an OC'er is an easy 'marked' target for the career criminal. O'rly, got any substantiating facts behind that one, I'll wait here.
Thank you
Thank you for the clarification.
indytechnerd
Master
Spazz, you've been here over a year, so I'm going to assume you've seen the threads. The problem I'm seeing is that you're bringing up the same points (again).
1. OCing will make you the primary target.
2. People OCing are trying to look like a badass.
3. People OCing are looking for confrontations.
Time and time again, this forum's OCers have stood up to these points. Go find proof that OCing makes you a target. Is that why cops are killed all the time, because they OC? I don't think so. A big ego? Let's not confuse an ego with self-confidence. If anything, I tend to be more humble and polite when I OC (and so do many other here, by their own words). Finally, does anyone really go looking for confrontation, with the public, cops, anyone? Overwhelmingly not. But, there has to be movement in order for carrying a gun in general to be more accepted. You say that you don't care what people think, but you should.
How is the perception different between a schmoe OCing and the plain clothes copper OCing? My neighbor is a member of IMPD. He does not wear his uniform to court, so he frequently walks around in Dockers and a polo shirt with a G27 on his belt. If he and I were standing next to each other, and one didn't see the badge next to his gun, there would be no way to tell which one of us was the cop. But you are asserting that I am hurting rather than helping our image?
The way to change perception, and thereby behavior, is repetition. Think about this. The first time ATM (in all his OC glory) went into the quik-e-mart to get a soda, the clerk's pucker factor probably went up a few notches. Now, 2000 sodas (and Open Carries) later, that clerk knows ATM and has no worries about the XDm on his hip. It's probably to the point now that he is able to reassure other employees that Mr. M is not there to rob them, but is just getting his Dr. Pepper fix.
Now, did ATM go into that quik-e-mart to spook the poor guy behind the counter, or to drum up some debate on the 2A? Hell no, he went for high fructose corn syrup and caffeine. The presence (and visibility) of his firearm were not, and still are not, germane to the transaction.
1. OCing will make you the primary target.
2. People OCing are trying to look like a badass.
3. People OCing are looking for confrontations.
Time and time again, this forum's OCers have stood up to these points. Go find proof that OCing makes you a target. Is that why cops are killed all the time, because they OC? I don't think so. A big ego? Let's not confuse an ego with self-confidence. If anything, I tend to be more humble and polite when I OC (and so do many other here, by their own words). Finally, does anyone really go looking for confrontation, with the public, cops, anyone? Overwhelmingly not. But, there has to be movement in order for carrying a gun in general to be more accepted. You say that you don't care what people think, but you should.
How is the perception different between a schmoe OCing and the plain clothes copper OCing? My neighbor is a member of IMPD. He does not wear his uniform to court, so he frequently walks around in Dockers and a polo shirt with a G27 on his belt. If he and I were standing next to each other, and one didn't see the badge next to his gun, there would be no way to tell which one of us was the cop. But you are asserting that I am hurting rather than helping our image?
The way to change perception, and thereby behavior, is repetition. Think about this. The first time ATM (in all his OC glory) went into the quik-e-mart to get a soda, the clerk's pucker factor probably went up a few notches. Now, 2000 sodas (and Open Carries) later, that clerk knows ATM and has no worries about the XDm on his hip. It's probably to the point now that he is able to reassure other employees that Mr. M is not there to rob them, but is just getting his Dr. Pepper fix.
Now, did ATM go into that quik-e-mart to spook the poor guy behind the counter, or to drum up some debate on the 2A? Hell no, he went for high fructose corn syrup and caffeine. The presence (and visibility) of his firearm were not, and still are not, germane to the transaction.
Here we go again.
I have OC'd some form of a firearm for nearly 20 years. I have yet to be asked to leave any establishment.
I also have yet to be singled out by even an apprentice criminal, let alone one who has reached career status.
Why are CCer somehow superior in intellect and action? I don't get it
I don't think I ever have seen CCers vilified by OCers.
Boost lee, a high ride holster will keep your full size gun hidden under your shirt if you didn't feel like tucking your shirt in.
I OC most of the time and had my ltch since 2008, only reaction I get from non-family members is an old friend of mine who asked if such thing was legal. CC or OC as you see fit, I'll stick with OC as my main method.
I OC most of the time and had my ltch since 2008, only reaction I get from non-family members is an old friend of mine who asked if such thing was legal. CC or OC as you see fit, I'll stick with OC as my main method.
Stealing a quote from Tattoo'd people..
The only difference between OCers and CCers is that OCers don't care if you CC.
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