Woman With Pot of Boiling Water Shot Dead by Police

[phylodog]

We are just not going to agree, I ask nothing more than the rules my sons work under with being in the Armed Service on deployments or working under State Dept Regulations with our own LEO's in America.

I'd want it the other way around. Everyone has a right to self defense, especially those who put their lives on the line protecting the freedoms this country is supposed to provide. Hopefully when the criminal is no longer running the country your boys will be treated more appropriately.

I've had someone point a gun at me. Not in my direction, directly at me after looking my direction.

 

[Creedmoor]

I'd want it the other way around. Everyone has a right to self defense, especially those who put their lives on the line protecting the freedoms this country is supposed to provide. Hopefully when the criminal is no longer running the country your boys will be treated more appropriately.

I've had someone point a gun at me. Not in my direction, directly at me after looking my direction.

Until we regress back to the days of Mr Barlow running Executive, and very few rules overseas, we are stuck with what we have.

 

[phylodog]

Until we regress back to the days of Mr Barlow running Executive, and very few rules overseas, we are stuck with what we have.

We neither one like it one bit.

 

[BigRed]

I took the whole "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" thing as a joke. He said (jokingly I thought at first) "Don't throw that hot water on me." That's when she said the rebuking thing.

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.

 

[Creedmoor]

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.

You seem to rebuke a lot, do they have a pill for that?

 

[BigRed]

You seem to rebuke a lot, do they have a pill for that?

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.

 

[BigRed]

Just a heads up to folks working the drive thru.... be careful. Coffee is hot.

 

[Creedmoor]

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.



View attachment 368218

Yep, you've got The Rebuke. There is no cure.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Do you have to Buke someone before you can Rebuke them?

(I actually got curious enough to Google this, and supposedly rebuke is borrowed from French so there was never a 'buke' in English. Now back to your regularly scheduled INGO thread)

 

[foszoe]

Do you have to Buke someone before you can Rebuke them?

(I actually got curious enough to Google this, and supposedly rebuke is borrowed from French so there was never a 'buke' in English. Now back to your regularly scheduled INGO thread)

INGO...Inspiring scholarship since 2009

 

[KG1]

 

[Ziggidy]

I rebuke you in the name of Jesus.





Were you scared?

Good thing I don't own any guns but I do have a hard covered bible!

 

[Ziggidy]

I find it interesting that the LEO lost it when she rebuked him. Immediately he went for his gun, threatened to shoot her in the face. It's like a light switch went on.....demon possessed?

I am on the side she did not throw hot water intentionally. A very angry hostile large man just threatened to shoot you in the face while you were following commands. He came around the counter and she was apologizing, scared out of her mind and IMO used the pot as a shield as this crazed man came at her with a gun.

The whole scene is (again IMO) was instigated by the LEO. The level that it reached was not created by a pot of boiling water. The trigger here was the rebuking, he wrongly elevated the situation that caused chaos for that short moment and now we have a dead person for no reason. Again, IMO.

I believe 99.9% of all LEO's would have handled it differently and that lady would still be alive. Just my opinion. This LEO's background adds to my opinion. Mace, Stun Gun or just stepping away would have been better. Needless killing.

 

[Route 45]

I find it interesting that the LEO lost it when she rebuked him. Immediately he went for his gun, threatened to shoot her in the face. It's like a light switch went on.....demon possessed?

Let's stick to reality.

I am on the side she did not throw hot water intentionally.

Yeah?

A very angry hostile large man just threatened to shoot you in the face while you were following commands. He came around the counter and she was apologizing, scared out of her mind and IMO used the pot as a shield as this crazed man came at her with a gun.

You are assigning rational thought to a paranoid schizophrenic. She was, by all accounts, extremely mentally ill. (Used to be called "demon possessed" in the middle ages)

The whole scene is (again IMO) was instigated by the LEO. The level that it reached was not created by a pot of boiling water. The trigger here was the rebuking, he wrongly elevated the situation that caused chaos for that short moment and now we have a dead person for no reason.

This literally would not have happened if it wasn't for the pot of boiling water. When a known paranoid schizophrenic goes from polite conversation to picking up a weapon (perceived or otherwise) and ranting religion, that should trigger a defensive response in any reasonable LEO.

I'm not saying that this was a justified shooting. The completely unnecessary aggressiveness of the LEO in this case obviously exacerbated the situation, along with their failure to control her movements and allowing her to acquire the boiling water in the first place.

But this isn't some "demon cop kills church lady" like you seem to think it is.

 

[freekforge]

I haven't been a leo for a minute but taking the information I've seen in the video and read in reports and applying it as a *TABLETOP EXERCISE* I can say I believe I would not have shot. I say believe because I'm a third party and do not have all the facts and was not present to experience any other factors. But through training and experience through police, fire and self sought outside training I feel confident saying he needlessly escalated the scene. I didnt see any deescalation at all. If the presence of boiling water was threat to him he needlessly put him self in danger by asking her to get it. I have never asked someone to introduce a threat into our interaction. There was a buffer area and he began to extend that buffer area by backing up before he decided to advance. He had distance and i believe some cover that he decided not to use . I dont believe there was a need to crank it up to 11 by pulling his gun. And threatening to shoot her in the face was just dumb in this situation. No less lethal tool be it verbal deescalation or physical tools were used. In the video I watched on a small phone screen it looked to me like she shielded herself and didn't throw the water although at that point I wouldn't blame her at all if she did. That perspective may change once i watch better quality video on a larger screen.The entire thing is weird the rebuking was weird and his response to her rebuking him was weird.

** again I looked at this as a table top I was not there and have never been threatened or felt threatened with a pot of boiling water. Not Monday morning QBing just working through the information and applying my time in public service.

 

[Route 45]

If the presence of boiling water was threat to him he needlessly put him self in danger by asking her to get it.

"Control your suspect" is a basic tenet of officer safety.

 

[Bugzilla]

Just can’t understand why he didn’t shoot her in the knee.

 

[Route 45]

Original video that I posted is gone from the original poster on X. Happens quite a bit on X, pretty annoying.

Reposting from YouTube for anyone who hasn't seen it. Includes talking head analysis, but is a more complete video.

 

[Ark]

The lead-up video shows she's obviously a little batty but there's no obvious threats or anything to clue the officer in to the idea that there might be danger coming from her.

This is still very perplexing. I'm definitely on team "boiling water is a deadly weapon", but there are ways to manage the threat of a contact weapon and ways to avoid it ever being on the table as a possibility.

I feel like you could run this encounter 20 times with 20 different cops or even laypeople and not end up with this result. Most cops would never even go inside the house. "We didn't find anything. We got other calls waiting. Bye.". Some cops would walk over and kill the stove themselves. Some cops would just stand there while she takes the pot off. Just a very odd combination of strange things going on, and one cop who in my opinion needs to lay off the tren.

 

[Creedmoor]

You haven't a clue what MOST police officers think. Police rarely use force, even more rare, deadly force. Police use force about .1% of all interactions. You watch too much TV...

So when I do watch Cops and Live PD it's not really real?