Woman With Pot of Boiling Water Shot Dead by Police

[BigRed]

Prosecutors are often most concerned about their "successful prosecution rate". "Justice" has nothing to do with it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

One person can be found guilty and sentenced for all three for the same act?

If you are found guilty of the "top" crime, the "lesser" crimes then become elements of that top crime, so in practical terms you're now guilty of all of them but not sentenced individually because the top crime is the most serious penalty exactly because it includes the lower level penalties already. Note this answer can vary somewhat depending on the exact charges, but for the context of this thread it's the most applicable.

In legalese: A lesser included offense in the field of criminal law is a less serious crime that is necessarily committed during the perpetration of a greater crime because the lesser crime contains some of the same elements of the greater crime. The greater crime cannot be proven unless all of the elements of the lesser crime are proven. For example, trespassing is a lesser included offense of the crime of burglary. See, e.g. Carter v. United States, 530 U.S. 255 (2000).

 

[JCSR]

1:30 pm?

 

[foszoe]

It's pretty cool to watch. All outside. Usually its a big stadium show. I just wish the weather would have been nicer for them.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

More than likely there will be a plea. If you drop X charges, we will plead guilty to Y. Or, conversely, if you plead guilty to Y, I'll drop X. Here in Fort Wayne it is standard procedure. Prosecutor just wants numbers. Not justice.

This is true, but it is also incomplete.

Given the vast majority of people criminally charged are factually guilty, it becomes a matter of expediency. People want efficiency in gov't, this is it, there's nowhere near enough capacity to actually try every crime. So, you incentivize people to admit their guilt by getting a better deal than they are likely to get when found guilty, avoiding the cost of a trial.

However, the truth remains it very often becomes an assembly line process. It's less true in things like murder, more true in cases like petty theft, but it's true regardless. It can be very frustrating and why pushes for 'restorative justice' get traction every now and then. It also incentivizes poor behavior on the criminal's part. Why *not* flee and why *not* fight and why *not* assume someone else's identity all in an attempt to escape your original charge if it'll be wrapped up into the plea as a "commit one, get three free" deal anyway?

 

[foszoe]

Minions were awesome

 

[nonobaddog]

I’ve always never understood why prior military experience is so prevalent among cops because nearly all of the qualities that would make someone an excellent soldier are the qualities that make someone unfit to be an officer.

I have a suspicion that we’d see less of these events (which I acknowledge are a tiny fraction of overall police interactions) if departments would stop recruiting vets and have a no tat policy.

How about MPs. I was in an S4 unit in the MP Training School at Ft Gordon in 1971 and we turned out a hell of a lot of MPs. Most of them went right to Vietnam to police the pull out.

What qualities would make them unfit to be LE? I mean other than their tendency to be criminals.

 

[Route 45]

It was a General discharge under honorable conditions.

Separation code JKQ = misconduct serious offense

Seems odd to me to attach that separation code to a General Under Honorable. You'd think a serious offense would get you Other Than Honorable or the Big Chicken Dinner. (BCD)

 

[STAGE 2]

How about MPs. I was in an S4 unit in the MP Training School at Ft Gordon in 1971 and we turned out a hell of a lot of MPs. Most of them went right to Vietnam to police the pull out.

What qualities would make them unfit to be LE? I mean other than their tendency to be criminals.

Being a MP would certainly be an exception since it’s similar to civilian law enforcement.

However the vast majority of vets were not MPs and the same applies to those vets now serving in law enforcement.

As far as qualities, combat and policing are at opposite ends of the spectrum. A roid raging inked up viking warrior isn’t the ideal cop in the same way that Dudley Do Right isn’t who you want in the fox hole. They both have their place in society, but for some reason at some point in time someone thought because they bothered carry guns one translated well to the other. It doesn’t.

 

[Destro]

Being a MP would certainly be an exception since it’s similar to civilian law enforcement.

However the vast majority of vets were not MPs and the same applies to those vets now serving in law enforcement.

As far as qualities, combat and policing are at opposite ends of the spectrum. A roid raging inked up viking warrior isn’t the ideal cop in the same way that Dudley Do Right isn’t who you want in the fox hole. They both have their place in society, but for some reason at some point in time someone thought because they bothered carry guns one translated well to the other. It doesn’t.

I used my combat skills every single day as a cop. I was a medic in the army, it translates to an EMT on the civilian side. I was covered by a fire department for protocols and I carried nearly all the same equipment as an ambulance. I was dispatched to every EMS call in my area when on duty. Many days I responded to more EMS calls than LE calls. Local EMS could be anywhere between 5-30 minutes away in rural Indiana. Heck, for really bad calls, I drove the ambulance or helped in the back if needed.

Being a cop was one of the most rewarding jobs I will have ever had. I was privileged to be the first to help people at their worst times. I served with many other veterans who were like minded. Not sure where you get this image that cops who served in combat are all high strung killers who use drugs. Most of the guys I served in combat with are just average guys. The gunner in my truck went on to medical school at Harvard...I will get you his name if you want, you can make sure you don't get him. He might have a tattoo I don't know.

I've never abused drugs and I don't like tattoos.

Ignorant takes like yours are what pushed me to retire, and are pushing all the guys who have options to leave too.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

If someone has that short of a fuse, why doesn't a partner tell them to take a break in the other room or something instead of roll with such insanity?

Killing over pride being hurt is a new low. The boiling water even being relevant seems comical, you can't just draw down on someone because they said something. And someone doesn't lose their God given right of self defense just because you have a badge. All they had to do was walk away, but they drew a gun and committed murder.

Now if they were there because she had done something to someone or was threatening someone, that would be different, but they were called for a break in concern.

Also some folks snap shot the officer's tattoos and he has satanic sigils, so that probably explains her comment. Confirmed it myself

Pretty sure that is the non shoot in the face officer.

 

[jedi]

I guess he didn't want to be rebuked in the name of Jesus.

Hey, just in time for the Democrat convention in ****cago.

 

[Brad69]

Seems odd to me to attach that separation code to a General Under Honorable. You'd think a serious offense would get you Other Than Honorable or the Big Chicken Dinner. (BCD)

IME,

BCD= General Court martial, It’s a pain you have to hang on to POS for months. Normally his JAG officer will drag it out.
This is reserved for things like rape, child abuse, drug dealing ect.
It’s a misdemeanor conviction and normally results in stockade time. Often used as a plea deal instead of a Dishonorable Discharge.

OTH = Special Court martial, Still a pain normally used for a patten of misconduct like repeated AR 15,s, fighting, bouncing checks, stealing ect.

General Discharge= Simple Soldier visits JAG they tell him to take a general discharge with a bad comment instead of a court martial. Lower enlisted the BN commander signs off on it and away we go. I would normally assign a SGT to get him out ASAP no more than a few days he is gone.

General Discharge doesn’t mean negative every time it just means you didn’t complete your term. It’s use for hardship, failure to meet standards ect.

This is for lower enlisted Soldiers it’s far worse if you are E-7 and above.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I used my combat skills every single day as a cop. I was a medic in the army, it translates to an EMT on the civilian side. I was covered by a fire department for protocols and I carried nearly all the same equipment as an ambulance. I was dispatched to every EMS call in my area when on duty. Many days I responded to more EMS calls than LE calls. Local EMS could be anywhere between 5-30 minutes away in rural Indiana. Heck, for really bad calls, I drove the ambulance or helped in the back if needed.

Being a cop was one of the most rewarding jobs I will have ever had. I was privileged to be the first to help people at their worst times. I served with many other veterans who were like minded. Not sure where you get this image that cops who served in combat are all high strung killers who use drugs. Most of the guys I served in combat with are just average guys. The gunner in my truck went on to medical school at Harvard...I will get you his name if you want, you can make sure you don't get him. He might have a tattoo I don't know.

I've never abused drugs and I don't like tattoos.

Ignorant takes like yours are what pushed me to retire, and are pushing all the guys who have options to leave too.

If you wouldn't mind, pm me the name of that gunner/md. If he's around me and in network I'm looking for a new Dr.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

IME,

BCD= General Court martial, It’s a pain you have to hang on to POS for months. Normally his JAG officer will drag it out.
This is reserved for things like rape, child abuse, drug dealing ect.
Its a felony conviction and normally results in stockade time.

OTH = Special Court martial, Still a pain normally used for a patten of misconduct like repeated AR 15,s, fighting, bouncing checks, stealing ect.

General Discharge= Simple Soldier visits JAG they tell him to take a general discharge with a bad comment instead of a court martial. Lower enlisted the BN commander signs off on it and away we go. I would normally assign a SGT to get him out ASAP no more than a few days he is gone.

General Discharge doesn’t mean negative every time it just means you didn’t complete your term. It’s use for hardship, failure to meet standards ect.

This is for lower enlisted Soldiers it’s far worse if you are E-7 and above.

Didn't serve so please excuse me if I'm wrong, but I believe that a BCD is a misdemeanor level discharge. As in still own guns, unless it's a result of domestic violence.

 

[PistolBob]

More than likely there will be a plea. If you drop X charges, we will plead guilty to Y. Or, conversely, if you plead guilty to Y, I'll drop X. Here in Fort Wayne it is standard procedure. Prosecutor just wants numbers. Not justice.

In Marion County all you do is say you're sorry and you will never do it again...the judge and prosecutor give you a slap on the butt and and a stern finger shaking...and off you go back to the streets.

 

[Brad69]

Didn't serve so please excuse me if I'm wrong, but I believe that a BCD is a misdemeanor level discharge. As in still own guns, unless it's a result of domestic violence.

You are correct I meant to say that got DD and BCD confused.

 

[miguel]

So, HTF did they get from "We didn't find anyone when we looked around" to searching her house?

She called about a prowler, no prowler found, so it was time to split.

"How's your mental health?" -- WTF does that have to do with her calling and reporting a prowler? She was certainly a "mumbler" but she's in her house and availed herself of a public service as a tax payer.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So, HTF did they get from "We didn't find anyone when we looked around" to searching her house?

She called about a prowler, no prowler found, so it was time to split.

"How's your mental health?" -- WTF does that have to do with her calling and reporting a prowler? She was certainly a "mumbler" but she's in her house and availed herself of a public service as a tax payer.

Were the prowlers believed to be imaginary/hallucination?

I used to have a guy who would call in burglaries because he had mental health issues and believed people were trying to steal his unwritten book. He then believed the mailman was an undercover FBI agent trying to steal his book. He started answering the door with a pistol in his hand (going back to if I shot everyone I *could* have shot, I'd have shot a lot more people), etc. Or the woman who thought voodoo priests were stealing her hair. Or the woman dealing with a giant demon snake. Etc. etc.

So, believe it or not, from the beginning I realized there was no burglar/prowler and started working to try to get him into mental health treatment. That's also part of the public service provided by police and has been for longer than I've been a cop. If you can get them help and it works, better quality of life for them, less fake calls for you, less risk of escalating to violence due to a misperceived reality.

 

[nonobaddog]

Were the prowlers believed to be imaginary/hallucination?

I used to have a guy who would call in burglaries because he had mental health issues and believed people were trying to steal his unwritten book. He then believed the mailman was an undercover FBI agent trying to steal his book. He started answering the door with a pistol in his hand (going back to if I shot everyone I *could* have shot, I'd have shot a lot more people), etc. Or the woman who thought voodoo priests were stealing her hair. Or the woman dealing with a giant demon snake. Etc. etc.

So, believe it or not, from the beginning I realized there was no burglar/prowler and started working to try to get him into mental health treatment. That's also part of the public service provided by police and has been for longer than I've been a cop. If you can get them help and it works, better quality of life for them, less fake calls for you, less risk of escalating to violence due to a misperceived reality.

Last year in the ICU, I was so sick I was delirious and you wouldn't believe how deep the chinese communists have infiltrated our health care system. I tried to warn my son about it but I couldn't talk. I barely remember that little fantasy part of it but there were many days I don't remember at all. I'm glad they didn't shoot me.