Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[Ingomike]

Since you posted without comment, what do you think is right here? The owners clearly indicated they agreed to not park trucks in the neighborhood at certain hours. Because you do not like those agreements do you support those owners even though they are going back on what they agreed to do?

Why doesn't the neighborhood just amend the agreement if there is consensus to do so? Why is the default stance of the news crew to take the side of those breaking their agreement and present them sympathetically instead of those that kept their word and followed what was agreed to?

 

[jkaetz]

I really would have expected “my word is my bond” kind of people to believe and support the following of any agreement folks have agreed to.

I think that's the thing you're missing. Most of us have argued that we don't really get to "agree" on the contractual agreement. We get no input, no negotiation, no discussion. We're presented with a set of restrictions and can either accept or walk. Were the individual home buyers actually engaged in the restriction making process you might see more of the "my word is my bond" kind of thing you were expecting. As it is, HOAs are just another government entity attempting to legislate everyone into good behavior.

 

[foszoe]

This discussion makes no sense, is this really Joe Biden? When did government enter the topic?

Ad hominem.

So you would rely solely on owners putting restrictions on deeds so that land can not be sold to foreign entities?

 

[Ingomike]

I think that's the thing you're missing. Most of us have argued that we don't really get to "agree" on the contractual agreement. We get no input, no negotiation, no discussion. We're presented with a set of restrictions and can either accept or walk. Were the individual home buyers actually engaged in the restriction making process you might see more of the "my word is my bond" kind of thing you were expecting.

I am not missing it, I just look at it as it is. There are many things in life that are presented as accept or walk. I get no say in the terms of insurance, cell phone plans, you name it, even my grocery will not negotiate on the food they sell, it is take it or leave it. How is the sale of homes or land any different?

As it is, HOAs are just another government entity attempting to legislate everyone into good behavior.

Actually if you read one of the articles I posted the other day having an HOA has reduced the need for government intrusion and kept control of the neighborhood with the actual owners.

 

[Ingomike]

Ad hominem.

So you would rely solely on owners putting restrictions on deeds so that land can not be sold to foreign entities?

I support national legislation that disallows much foreign ownership of farmland, food production, and other critical infrastructure to national security.

 

[foszoe]

I support national legislation that disallows much foreign ownership of farmland, food production, and other critical infrastructure to national security.

If one likes an HOA because it has builtin deed restrictions but wants to make it illegal for another with no deed restrictions to sell farmland to China. That person, in my eyes, is inconsisten in their application of property rights....except for the consistency in wanting to place restrictions on others.

 

[Ingomike]

If one likes an HOA because it has builtin deed restrictions but wants to make it illegal for another with no deed restrictions to sell farmland to China. That person, in my eyes, is inconsisten in their application of property rights....except for the consistency in wanting to place restrictions on others.

If one cannot distinguish simple business agreements and national security I cannot help you. You think it ok to sell the all the land in a state to Putin? Xe? To let them own their own state?

 

[foszoe]

If one cannot distinguish simple business agreements and national security I cannot help you. You think it ok to sell the all the land in a state to Putin? Xe? To let them own their own state?

More questions that aren't relevant.

The correct question is Do you/I think the government should have the right to restrict the rights of the owner to sell to any buyer, in addition to any laws currently on the books?

Your answer is yes.
Mine is no.

The corollary, I believe, is you accept that an outside entity to the owner and the buyer should be allowed to change the terms of the deed. Yet you would not allow the current owner unilaterally superceding any agreements the previous owner had made. You are fine, however, with the government being able to pass legislation to do so.

 

[jkaetz]

I am not missing it, I just look at it as it is. There are many things in life that are presented as accept or walk. I get no say in the terms of insurance, cell phone plans, you name it, even my grocery will not negotiate on the food they sell, it is take it or leave it. How is the sale of homes or land any different?

You misunderstand. I'm not discussing those other things. You were surprised that people don't make good on "their word". I told you why.

That said, those things all provide a service. An HOA provides minimal service while restricting what we can do on our little plots of earth adding another layer of government oversight.

Actually if you read one of the articles I posted the other day having an HOA has reduced the need for government intrusion and kept control of the neighborhood with the actual owners.

The HOA is government. They simply give it a cute name and make it sound like the homeowners are in charge.

 

[Ingomike]

You misunderstand. I'm not discussing those other things. You were surprised that people don't make good on "their word". I told you why.

Got it. In certain circumstances it is ok to go back on your word.

That said, those things all provide a service.

I bet the complaining on insurance would be similar to this.

An HOA provides minimal service while restricting what we can do on our little plots of earth adding another layer of government oversight.

“63% said they felt their HOA fees were fairly priced for the benefits they receive.”

New survey reveals how homeowners feel about HOAs - WTOP News

Roughly a third of homeowners, either in houses or condos, are in a homeowners association, and a recent survey finds most like it, even though the fees can be a source of frustration.

wtop.com

The HOA is government. They simply give it a cute name and make it sound like the homeowners are in charge.

I suppose one could call it a form of government but one is not required to join in that government if they do not want to, just like many choose not to live in California. Being an owner member seems to have much more standing than a citizen has.

 

[Ingomike]

More questions that aren't relevant.

The correct question is Do you/I think the government should have the right to restrict the rights of the owner to sell to any buyer, in addition to any laws currently on the books?

Your answer is yes.
Mine is no.

My answer is definitely yes. Do you really support an owner selling land, next to a sensitive military installation, to Iran, North Korea, etc.?

The corollary, I believe, is you accept that an outside entity to the owner and the buyer should be allowed to change the terms of the deed.

No one is changing a deed in this case, just federal law. They have superseded deed restrictions with civil rights laws that supersede deed restrictions that say certain people cannot live on property. But again, that is law.

Yet you would not allow the current owner unilaterally superceding any agreements the previous owner had made.

An owner that agreed to restrictions has agreed to abide by them, though that owner has the right to challeng them in court, but otherwise the owner must abide by what they agreed to.

You are fine, however, with the government being able to pass legislation to do so.

I am ok with limited legislation on property sales, such as the civil rights and national security issues, but unlikely to support many others.

 

[foszoe]

My answer is definitely yes. Do you really support an owner selling land, next to a sensitive military installation, to Iran, North Korea, etc.?

I support an owner being able to sell to a buyer meeting the owner's terms without any gov't interference.

 

[Creedmoor]

My answer is definitely yes. Do you really support an owner selling land, next to a sensitive military installation, to Iran, North Korea, etc.?

I remember a song that we learned in elementary school, what was it again...

Oh yea here it is,



Next up is "Fortunate Son"

 

[Ingomike]

I support an owner being able to sell to a buyer meeting the owner's terms without any gov't interference.

Got it, fos supports the countries enemies, among others, being allowed to purchase any land they want. The current laws seem to agree with you, I disagree but, to each their own. Great we can have free discussions on this.

 

[foszoe]

Got it, fos supports the countries enemies, among others, being allowed to purchase any land they want. The current laws seem to agree with you, I disagree but, to each their own. Great we can have free discussions on this.

False dichotomy.

But yes, great we can have discussions like this.

 

[firecadet613]

I support an owner being able to sell to a buyer meeting the owner's terms without any gov't interference.

Chinese Companies Keep Buying U.S. Land Near Military Bases

National security experts warn that some of those purchases are too close for comfort.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[Ingomike]

False dichotomy.

But yes, great we can have discussions like this.

What is false about the statement that you “supports the countries enemies, among others, being allowed to purchase any land they want”? Are you saying you don’t support “enemies, among others, being allowed to purchase any land they want”?

 

[foszoe]

What is false about the statement that you “supports the countries enemies, among others, being allowed to purchase any land they want”? Are you saying you don’t support “enemies, among others, being allowed to purchase any land they want”?

Are those the only 2 possibilities you can think of?

 

[foszoe]

I have taken this discussion to a higher level! Page 92 to be exact! Tune in tomorrow when I attempt to take it to 93!

 

[firecadet613]

I have taken this discussion to a higher level! Page 92 to be exact! Tune in tomorrow when I attempt to take it to 93!