Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[KellyinAvon]

People hate HOA’s because HOA’s are made up of people. There’s maybe 10% of the population who can handle any level of authority or power without losing their minds and deciding they deserve a throne and HOA’s are certainly no exception.

Had a couple mild run ins with mine over the 15 years we lived in our last house. I don’t miss it and somehow the neighborhood still managed to go downhill in spite of its existence. The primary one was me violating the rules by parking a “commercial” vehicle in my driveway. It was a fully marked police car. That was pretty good reinforcement for my feelings toward them in general.

I'm a 10%er... COOL!!

Commercial vehicles: Police vehicles are municipal, not commercial. I like it when marked Po-Po vehicles are here. Especially when the lights aren't flashing. Had a State Trooper here a while back, good guy and I always had my wallet after talking to him.

We get the occasional bob-tail tractor but those folks know where to park and not cause traffic issues. Can't say that for all the residents here...

 

[BugI02]

I wonder if DeSantis is an INGO member?

Gov. DeSantis signs bill to rein in overbearing HOAs

The new law also provides that HOA managers and directors must satisfy certain educational requirements.

floridapolitics.com

Ever wonder why work trucks are banned in HOAs so often? Are they that unsightly, or is it who drives a work truck isn't really welcomed by folks super duper concerned about the style of hinges on your garage door?

But trying to enact specific answers for every HOA abuse is playing Whack-a-mole

DeSantis should enact a state law that says only the restrictions in effect at the time you buy a property and delineated in the agreements may be enforced on a property owner unless he agrees to amend his covenant. That's the only way to guarantee informed consent for some of the stupid sh*t they come up with

Better yet would be to allow an opt-out period after you own the home for a certain number of years, or a sunset clause. That alone would gut most HOAs after people have enough time to experience their 'joys'

INGO welcomes people from out of state (even buckeyes), send him (DeSantis) an invitation to join

 

[BugI02]

Personally, I think it's because people who live in HOAs believe every other work truck actually belongs to a 3 letter agency that's out to get them.

I think most people who are happy to live under the thumb of an HOA aspire above their station

 

[Shadow01]

I think most people who are happy to live under the thumb of an HOA aspire above their station

And are kevins and karens in training.

 

[BugI02]

Interesting, wonder from a legal aspect, how this will work with HOA's with existing covenants that contain these things that pre-date the law?

HOAs live by forcing changes on people that were not in effect in the original covenants at time of purchase. It will be interesting how they like being on the receiving end. I'm guessing not so much

 

[Ingomike]

HOAs live by forcing changes on people that were not in effect in the original covenants at time of purchase. It will be interesting how they like being on the receiving end. I'm guessing not so much

How can an HOA “live by forcing changes on people that were not in effect in the original covenants at time of purchase” unless clear majorities approve such changes? Those changes can be for more restrictions, less, or even to do away with them altogether.

 

[BugI02]

Depends on the HOA. The board of directors of an HOA have a fairly broad authority to enact new rules, some of which may not be deemed to require a membership vote - and guess who decides whether a vote is required

If that point is in dispute, would it not be up to the homeowner(s) asserting that a vote is required to undertake the time and expense of a court challenge? And, if so, might that not exert a 'chilling effect' on a homeowner's willingness to challenge overreach - and could that not be exactly what the little tyrants are counting on. Are you aware of any HOAs that submit a proposed rule to the membership in advance for discussion and which allow the membership to suggest changes? Neither am I

 

[WebSnyper]

Depends on the HOA. The board of directors of an HOA have a fairly broad authority to enact new rules, some of which may not be deemed to require a membership vote - and guess who decides whether a vote is required

If that point is in dispute, would it not be up to the homeowner(s) asserting that a vote is required to undertake the time and expense of a court challenge? And, if so, might that not exert a 'chilling effect' on a homeowner's willingness to challenge overreach - and could that not be exactly what the little tyrants are counting on. Are you aware of any HOAs that submit a proposed rule to the membership in advance for discussion and which allow the membership to suggest changes? Neither am I

Usually that (what the process is to change rules) is spelled out in the original covenants at least in my experience.

I'm not advocating for HOAs here.

Just was trying to understand how the law would retroactively affect contracts/covenants that were already in place. Would the entire covenants document be in question, would it only strike certain those specific pieces that were now in violation of the law, or would they be preserved until such time as the covenants had to be renewed, etc.

The HOA at my subdivision submitted just consolidated covenants to the residents and needed a vote and like 2/3 yes vote or so to just consolidate several sections and bring them current with no real rule changes in the new covenants. They actually provided the new covenants doc with changes tracked and shown.

In any case, I was truly curious on how the rule would affect in force covenants from a technical perspective than anything on whether I agreed or did not with HOAs.

 

[Ingomike]

Usually that (what the process is to change rules) is spelled out in the original covenants at least in my experience.

I'm not advocating for HOAs here.

Just was trying to understand how the law would retroactively affect contracts/covenants that were already in place. Would the entire covenants document be in question, would it only strike certain those specific pieces that were now in violation of the law, or would they be preserved until such time as the covenants had to be renewed, etc.

The HOA at my subdivision submitted just consolidated covenants to the residents and needed a vote and like 2/3 yes vote or so to just consolidate several sections and bring them current with no real rule changes in the new covenants. They actually provided the new covenants doc with changes tracked and shown.

In any case, I was truly curious on how the rule would affect in force covenants from a technical perspective than anything on whether I agreed or did not with HOAs.

This is my experience.

 

[Ingomike]

Depends on the HOA. The board of directors of an HOA have a fairly broad authority to enact new rules, some of which may not be deemed to require a membership vote - and guess who decides whether a vote is required

If that point is in dispute, would it not be up to the homeowner(s) asserting that a vote is required to undertake the time and expense of a court challenge? And, if so, might that not exert a 'chilling effect' on a homeowner's willingness to challenge overreach - and could that not be exactly what the little tyrants are counting on. Are you aware of any HOAs that submit a proposed rule to the membership in advance for discussion and which allow the membership to suggest changes? Neither am I

Never seen that.

 

[BugI02]

Never seen that.

How to Change HOA Rules - ElectionBuddy

Did you fall head over heels with a French Bulldog only to realize your homeowner association (HOA) has a sixty-pound weight restriction on dogs? Are you expecting your sister to stay with you long-term, but she won’t be able to park her vehicle overnight on the street while she’s there? They...

electionbuddy.com

Usually, some rules and regulations of an HOA can be amended by a vote of the board of directors; however, bylaws and declarations require a vote of the property owners—typically a substantial percentage, such as 66% or 75% of all homeowners.

However, if the proposed amendment is minor, such as adding a provision that says there is to be “no reversing into your parking area,” the HOA board of directors can probably make the change without legal advice.

The example is exactly the kind of annoying, pointless micro-managing that makes HOAs so universally loved. WTF difference would that make 'to the resale value of the property'?

 

[Ingomike]

How to Change HOA Rules - ElectionBuddy

Did you fall head over heels with a French Bulldog only to realize your homeowner association (HOA) has a sixty-pound weight restriction on dogs? Are you expecting your sister to stay with you long-term, but she won’t be able to park her vehicle overnight on the street while she’s there? They...

electionbuddy.com

The example is exactly the kind of annoying, pointless micro-managing that makes HOAs so universally loved. WTF difference would that make 'to the resale value of the property'?

“Usually, some rules and regulations of an HOA can be amended by a vote of the board of directors; however, bylaws and declarations require a vote of the property owners—typically a substantial percentage, such as 66% or 75% of all homeowners.”

As I said, never seen this personally. I‘m sure some board members get power drunk, we have seen articles demonstrating this, but compared to the millions of HOA’s it seems a small number.

 

[edporch]

I wonder if DeSantis is an INGO member?

Gov. DeSantis signs bill to rein in overbearing HOAs

The new law also provides that HOA managers and directors must satisfy certain educational requirements.

floridapolitics.com

-snip-

Though I respect the right of people to live in a place where there's a HOA, there still needs to be SOME limits placed on them, because some things they demand go over the line with regard to violating a homeowner's private property rights that are in no way affecting the value of their neighbor's property.

FOR example, a friend of mine's parents lived in Florida during the cold months, and the HOA they had was out of control at times.
Seems a lot of lawyers retire to Florida, and their addition had their share.

Commonly a retired lawyer would get involved in the HOA and missing their old law practice, would go through the by-laws like petty tyrants, and dig up every little thing they could do to make life miserable for people.
ALL because they now had too much time on their hands.

 

[Ingomike]

Though I respect the right of people to live in a place where there's a HOA, there still needs to be SOME limits placed on them, because some things they demand go over the line with regard to violating a homeowner's private property rights that are in no way affecting the value of their neighbor's property.

Why do there need to be limits on a private contract? I agree some can get out of control but so do all contracts, that is why civil court dockets are full. The property owner voluntarily agrees to limiting their rights to get others to limit theirs as well. An HOA with covenants is an agreement as to how a group of property owners will live together.

 

[phylodog]

Are HOA's truly voluntary today with the housing crisis being what it is? It isn't like people have a ton of options when buying a home today and deciding not to buy someplace with an HOA significantly reduces an already slim supply. I didn't want to live under an HOA in our last house but options were limited so we sucked it up and it sucked.

People hate freedom unless its their own.

 

[Sailor]

Usually that (what the process is to change rules) is spelled out in the original covenants at least in my experience.

I'm not advocating for HOAs here.

Just was trying to understand how the law would retroactively affect contracts/covenants that were already in place. Would the entire covenants document be in question, would it only strike certain those specific pieces that were now in violation of the law, or would they be preserved until such time as the covenants had to be renewed, etc.

The HOA at my subdivision submitted just consolidated covenants to the residents and needed a vote and like 2/3 yes vote or so to just consolidate several sections and bring them current with no real rule changes in the new covenants. They actually provided the new covenants doc with changes tracked and shown.

In any case, I was truly curious on how the rule would affect in force covenants from a technical perspective than anything on whether I agreed or did not with HOAs.

This is exactly how it is. Was on our HOA board for last 12 years. The covenants rule, legally can not stray from them. And the likely hood of ever changing them is next to nill. You can not 20% of the people to vote on something much less 2/3ds. I joined because I wanted to make sure that my money was spent well. We spend most of our time reviewing bids for grass, snow, maintenance. Approving, home renovations/add ons and complaints.

 

[Ingomike]

People hate freedom unless its their own.

And there is the crux of the matter at hand. People here seem to have a fear of HOA’s because they want their own freedom, even if there is risk, while wanting to deny others the freedom to have the protection of covenants against unruly neighbors. Both exist, choosing one or the other will always limit choices. It is irrational to hate one or the other, they are choices…

 

[KellyinAvon]

This is exactly how it is. Was on our HOA board for last 12 years. The covenants rule, legally can not stray from them. And the likely hood of ever changing them is next to nill. You can not 20% of the people to vote on something much less 2/3ds. I joined because I wanted to make sure that my money was spent well. We spend most of our time reviewing bids for grass, snow, maintenance. Approving, home renovations/add ons and complaints.

To amend our covenants is 75% in writing concurring. I used to say you can’t get 75% to agree on free ice cream but we did get a couple things amended not long ago. Nothing controversial, it was changing the quorum percentage since we rarely had a quorum, and taking out the word “privacy” concerning fence requirements on some lots.

Still was hard to get 75%.

 

[Ingomike]

To amend our covenants is 75% in writing concurring. I used to say you can’t get 75% to agree on free ice cream but we did get a couple things amended not long ago. Nothing controversial, it was changing the quorum percentage since we rarely had a quorum, and taking out the word “privacy” concerning fence requirements on some lots.

Still was hard to get 75%.

It should be hard to amend covenants…

 

[firecadet613]

I used to live in a 400+ home HOA. There were many years no business could get done at the annual meetings due to low attendance and so few homeowners sending in their proxy votes.