Why all the hate on .40

[VERT]

40S&W and 9mm have the same pressure specs. Both max out at 35,000psi.

True but larger bullet. So more bullet weight and more powder. So all things being equal the .40 has more recoil. 40 can make USPSA major at 165 PF or above. 20 years ago I used .40 on bowling pins alongside the .45s.

I wonder how much of the .40 myth and mystic was due to the unsupported chambers in the Glocks and all of the .40 brass laying around with the dreaded reloaded “Glock Bulge”.

 

[DadSmith]

True but larger bullet. So more bullet weight and more powder. So all things being equal the .40 has more recoil. 40 can make USPSA major at 165 PF or above. 20 years ago I used .40 on bowling pins alongside the .45s.

I wonder how much of the .40 myth and mystic was due to the unsupported chambers in the Glocks and all of the .40 brass laying around with the dreaded reloaded “Glock Bulge”.

The recoil will definitely be different because of the mass. But pressure wise its the same.
The 10mm max is 37,500psi at least the modern version of the 10mm. Most factory loads don't even get close to that. Yet if you shoot a 200gr out of a 10mm with the same pressure as a 40 or 9mm you'll get more velocity and recoil.
So pressure being about the same across the board, it's the recoil that has to be causing problems in some firearms.
Wouldn't heavier recoil springs fix the problem that some 40S&W had?

 

[BigMoose]

This thread is back?

Upon even further review... 40 Still sucks.

Forgive me if this was already mentioned, but I have heard .40 is pretty hard on a pistols internals. Broken parts, burned out barrels, etc. Far faster than a 9mm or .45 pistol of same design (ie., Glocks).

Now personally, I don’t know that for fact, but the individual who said it spoke gospel to more than a few folks.

It depends on the firearms. There were a few designs really made for 9mm that were upscaled that are handfulls.

 

[DadSmith]

Years ago I talked to a Nebraska state trooper who pulled me over for 10mph over posted speed limit.
He was professional, and a gun lover. He carried a 40S&W can't remember the model of firearm though.
He told me that he wouldn't carry anything less then 180gr in his duty weapon. He said what they noticed was the 180gr outperformed the lower weight bullets in the shootings the state troopers had at that time in his department. IIRC that included dispatching animals as well. I believe he said they used Hydra-Shok. It was a long time ago so my memory has faded on some things.
We had a great conversation. I told him to be safe as he handed me my ticket.
It was interesting to talk to an officer/trooper on things like that while getting a ticket.
That was back in the mid 90's out it southwest Nebraska. Basically a farm about every 5-10 miles apart out there.
He was probably bored.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Shot my LE Trade in G-22 and G-27 today in Avon.
I carried that combo for about thirty years.
I had a blast using $25 a box Federal 165 he FMJ.
Brought back some fine memories.
I never felt under gunned carrying them, but ammo advances and prices to practice keeps me in the .9mm market now.
I would not hesitate to carry those .40’s anytime or anywhere.

 

[SALJER]

Nothing wrong with a 40 S&W. I own 2, CZ75B and a Beretta Cougar both are +P. Both are fantastic. I also own 2 9mm's. If any had to go it would be the 9's.

 

[Amishman44]

I have a G23 Gen 5 and it fits perfectly in a SERPA Holster (yeah, I know) designed for a G20 or G21. I have seen on the Internet that the slides on the Gen 5 .40's are the same slide thickness as the G37, 38 and 39. I have never actually seen a .45 GAP Glock in person, so I can't verify that.

I believe that is correct...a thicker, more robust slide setup to handle the larger diameter .40 S&W bullet / casing is the way to go.
When they simply bump a 9mm up to a .40 S&W, most often the chambering / slide ends up with thinner walls than the original 9mm due to the 1mm larger bullet it has to accommodate...and can crack or blow up as a result. I've heard of that happening in Glock pistols as well as with Beretta 96 pistols.
I once sold a Gen 4 Glock 22 to a guy, who shot it, and the slide and barrel blew up on him while shooting. I don't remember whether it was his first or second trip to the range and I'm not sure if he was using factory ammo, or reloads, or what...but I that I hadn't had any issues with it when I had it, but I usually only shoot 155 or 165 grain .40 S&W ammo...if that even makes a difference??? (I honestly don't really think the grain of the bullet has anything to do with it...if it does, that'd be a new one on me???)

 

[Scott58]

Years ago I talked to a Nebraska state trooper who pulled me over for 10mph over posted speed limit.
He was professional, and a gun lover. He carried a 40S&W can't remember the model of firearm though.
He told me that he wouldn't carry anything less then 180gr in his duty weapon. He said what they noticed was the 180gr outperformed the lower weight bullets in the shootings the state troopers had at that time in his department. IIRC that included dispatching animals as well. I believe he said they used Hydra-Shok. It was a long time ago so my memory has faded on some things.
We had a great conversation. I told him to be safe as he handed me my ticket.
It was interesting to talk to an officer/trooper on things like that while getting a ticket.
That was back in the mid 90's out it southwest Nebraska. Basically a farm about every 5-10 miles apart out there.
He was probably bored.

Your story struck a chord with me. I do like my .380 and 9mm at the range. And haven't really purchased a gun I didn't like in the last few years, but for EDC I'm going back to my 4" .45acp that's served me well for over 40 years. My wrists may not be what they used to be, but its only going to hurt after the fact right? I'm more comfortable with it anyway.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Years ago I talked to a Nebraska state trooper who pulled me over for 10mph over posted speed limit.
He was professional, and a gun lover. He carried a 40S&W can't remember the model of firearm though.
He told me that he wouldn't carry anything less then 180gr in his duty weapon. He said what they noticed was the 180gr outperformed the lower weight bullets in the shootings the state troopers had at that time in his department. IIRC that included dispatching animals as well. I believe he said they used Hydra-Shok. It was a long time ago so my memory has faded on some things.
We had a great conversation. I told him to be safe as he handed me my ticket.
It was interesting to talk to an officer/trooper on things like that while getting a ticket.
That was back in the mid 90's out it southwest Nebraska. Basically a farm about every 5-10 miles apart out there.
He was probably bored.

Hydra shok isn't really top tier any longer. It's ok, but works best in faster rounds that help it's inconsistent deformation and expansion along. .357 Magnum is about the only thing I'll consider HS for these days.

HSTs, Gold Dots, etc. are preferable, and 165 vs 180 is hair in a bear's ass territory. Some boutique makers make lighter bullets driven faster to get those oh-so-marketable energy numbers up, but I would avoid them myself.

 

[DadSmith]

Hydra shok isn't really top tier any longer. It's ok, but works best in faster rounds that help it's inconsistent deformation and expansion along. .357 Magnum is about the only thing I'll consider HS for these days.

HSTs, Gold Dots, etc. are preferable, and 165 vs 180 is hair in a bear's ass territory. Some boutique makers make lighter bullets driven faster to get those oh-so-marketable energy numbers up, but I would avoid them myself.

Did they have HST back in the mid 90's
They also were probably department issued, or are you allowed to buy your own ammunition for on duty use?
Also I could be mistaken on the HP. It's been many years but Hydra Shok seems to be sticking to my memory. We know how memories are lol.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Did they have HST back in the mid 90's
They also were probably department issued, or are you allowed to buy your own ammunition for on duty use?
Also I could be mistaken on the HP. It's been many years but Hydra Shok seems to be sticking to my memory. We know how memories are lol.

No, HST was sometime in the early 2000s.

I've no idea what that department does. Most everyone of any size issues ammunition, but some do just have an approved list and you source your own. Sometimes there's a variation on this from issued guns to personally owned guns as well, sometimes it's the same across the board.

HS was popular, no doubt, and was good for it's day in many cartridges. It's just outclassed now, as Federal released the HST as the improved version. And rightfully so. I used to carry it in .45 Auto. I would not now.

 

[Brad69]

You can make a .40 into a baby 10mm.

Heavy .40 +P Smith & Weson Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Heavy .40 +P Smith & Wesson Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

www.buffalobore.com

 

[tomcat13]

Admittedly late to the party, but I 'll throw in my 2 cents.
Don't really Hate the 40, just see no Use for it-personally.
Already into 10mm-got a Colt Delta when they 1st came out & Love it.
Been in the Lord's Caliber (.45 acp) since I started Shooting.
Just never saw the need to get into 40.
FIL has a Sig P226 in 40 & is very fond of it.
I've shot it & it's a Fine weapon.

 

[Nazgul]

One good thing about 40 hate is that you can always find the ammo. When 9 mm, 22 rimfire and 45 ACP are non existent it seems they always have 40 on the shelf.

Don

 

[DadSmith]

You can make a .40 into a baby 10mm.

Heavy .40 +P Smith & Weson Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Heavy .40 +P Smith & Wesson Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

www.buffalobore.com

That's why they call it 40Short&Weak

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

One good thing about 40 hate is that you can always find the ammo. When 9 mm, 22 rimfire and 45 ACP are non existent it seems they always have 40 on the shelf.

Don

Doubt if we see it on shelves next time there is a shortage. After thousands of .40 police trade-ins hit the market the ammo sales went way up to feed them.

 

[VERT]

Doubt if we see it on shelves next time there is a shortage. After thousands of .40 police trade-ins hit the market the ammo sales went way up to feed them.

I suppose use the what you save on the gun to buy some more mags and ammo. Ha. (Yes I understand that $100 doesn’t go that far anymore unfortunately. But it’s enough to set a few extra boxes aside.)

 

[Knights1776]

One good thing about 40 hate is that you can always find the ammo. When 9 mm, 22 rimfire and 45 ACP are non existent it seems they always have 40 on the shelf.

Don

In my adult life time there's been at least 4 panic buying sprees in this country. I remember .40 being available in all of those. Maybe not in abundance but there was always at least a few boxes laying around and at an OK price.

 

[DadSmith]

In my adult life time there's been at least 4 panic buying sprees in this country. I remember .40 being available in all of those. Maybe not in abundance but there was always at least a few boxes laying around and at an OK price.

I've got 1k nickel plated brass for the 40S&W and I don't even own one. Yet....
I've got plenty of components I just need a 40S&W to shoot them in.

 

[SALJER]

I've got 1k nickel plated brass for the 40S&W and I don't even own one. Yet....
I've got plenty of components I just need a 40S&W to shoot them in.

Sounds like you need to go shopping. LOL