What is the end goal of neutering this countries police forces?

[littletommy]

Oh I'm well aware the loons said it, it just never worked out to where Bush did as they claimed he would. Reading comprehension is your friend.

 

[SSGSAD]

I think those are some of the areas that concern us all. This is not the 1930's, but this generation seems to have forgotten what happened in the past.

They haven't forgotten, ( the YOUNG ones), The "LIBERALS" REFUSE to teach the TRUTH, about American History, ESPECIALLY, where the use of firearms are (is) concerned !!!!!

 

[mrjarrell]

Oh I'm well aware the loons said it, it just never worked out to where Bush did as they claimed he would. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Nothing wrong at all with my comprehension skills. Perhaps it's your writing skills. You said what you said in plain English.

LOL! Let me guess, YOU agreed with that one back then, right? (I know you'd never admit it now, since it didn't happen)

The loons on the left said it then, and loons on the right are saying it now.

 

[Leadeye]

I remember the 60s, things aren't that bad and it's unlikely they will be. This is a local situation where the city administration let things spin out of control and you can bet the big money players will send them to the showers for it. Nobody is going to "neuter " police departments, there's way to much invested in big city property these days to do that.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I saw the video of Uncle Al calling for all police departments to be under control of the DOJ.

Found it.

Sharpton Calls for DOJ to 'Take Over Policing,' 'Going to Have to Fight States' Rights' - Breitbart

 

[drop45]

They want to try and control us like a shepherd controls his sheep, I say down with the shepherd.

 

[mcjon77]

Honestly, I have ZERO problem with a less aggressive police force, even if that decrease in aggression means a decrease in their ability to "protect" us. Thats what my gun and my (soon to arrive) ccw permit are for. I would LOVE to see American citizens take a more active role IN THEIR OWN PROTECTION and to have police take a step back.

The problem occurs when an American citizen lives in a place like Baltimore, NYC, or Washington DC. The gun rights are so restricted that the citizenry does not have the ability to protect themselves. What good is a "right" to self defense without the ability to do so? In these situations people are basically held hostage.

Even reading this thread, it is obvious that some people are under a mistaken notion that the police have some duty to protect you. THEY DO NOT! The police may have a duty to protect a community at large, but the supreme court has ruled that they have NO SPECIFIC DUTY to protect individual citizens (see Warren v DC). The result of this can be seen in places like Detroit, where average police response time for all calls is 58 MINUTES, but if you live near Wayne State University that response time drops to 90 SECONDS. Here are citizens in the exact same city getting starkly different public services, based on where they live.

Americans need to start taking more responsibility to protect themselves. It is this abdication of their responsibility of self protection that leads to this mindset of wanting the police "do whatever it takes" to keep them safe. Of course, this "do whatever it takes" mentality really means "do whatever it takes, as long as you don't do it to me or my kids". I used to (along with most Americans) LOVE the movies about the brutal cop who gets "tough" on criminals, even if it means breaking the rules and violating their rights. Now, those movies disgust me.

When the police assist the public in providing for a safe community, they are public servants. When the police are expected to be the ONLY means a citizen has of protection, they are no longer public servants. Now they are your Daddy. And like good little toddlers, when need to leave the grownup stuff (like personal protection) to them and trust that they will keep us safe from the big bad men outside.

 

[D-Ric902]

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Honestly, I have ZERO problem with a less aggressive police force, even if that decrease in aggression means a decrease in their ability to "protect" us. Thats what my gun and my (soon to arrive) ccw permit are for. I would LOVE to see American citizens take a more active role IN THEIR OWN PROTECTION and to have police take a step back.

The problem occurs when an American citizen lives in a place like Baltimore, NYC, or Washington DC. The gun rights are so restricted that the citizenry does not have the ability to protect themselves. What good is a "right" to self defense without the ability to do so? In these situations people are basically held hostage.

Even reading this thread, it is obvious that some people are under a mistaken notion that the police have some duty to protect you. THEY DO NOT! The police may have a duty to protect a community at large, but the supreme court has ruled that they have NO SPECIFIC DUTY to protect individual citizens (see Warren v DC). The result of this can be seen in places like Detroit, where average police response time for all calls is 58 MINUTES, but if you live near Wayne State University that response time drops to 90 SECONDS. Here are citizens in the exact same city getting starkly different public services, based on where they live.

Americans need to start taking more responsibility to protect themselves. It is this abdication of their responsibility of self protection that leads to this mindset of wanting the police "do whatever it takes" to keep them safe. Of course, this "do whatever it takes" mentality really means "do whatever it takes, as long as you don't do it to me or my kids". I used to (along with most Americans) LOVE the movies about the brutal cop who gets "tough" on criminals, even if it means breaking the rules and violating their rights. Now, those movies disgust me.

When the police assist the public in providing for a safe community, they are public servants. When the police are expected to be the ONLY means a citizen has of protection, they are no longer public servants. Now they are your Daddy. And like good little toddlers, when need to leave the grownup stuff (like personal protection) to them and trust that they will keep us safe from the big bad men outside.

I'm not sure how successful I'm going to be at making my point, but here goes:

Since the time I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, our society has undergone a sea change. In that time, "Officer Friendly" has somehow disappeared and become "Officer JBT." At least some of this change seems to be cultural; a somewhat "fashionable" view promulgated by anti-war protesters (instigated by - surprise! - communists and their sympathizers) transformed "police officers" into "pigs." Additionally, political and cultural pressures forced changes on police agencies which have exacerbated standard human corruption issues, while the 24 hour news cycle and a generally "liberal" news-gathering culture has emphasized police misconduct, while minimizing the effects of an increasingly aggressive criminal class which has grown up with less and less respect for life or law.

While I have no particular evidence for the theory, it seems to me that the course our culture has pursued in the past forty years and our current situation is eerily like the efforts of communist insurgents to undermine a society by breaking down its institutions, including undermining the society's faith in its laws and the ability of the government to protect the citizenry. My personal opinion is that we have too damned many laws involving too damned many things about which government should not concern itself. Too many laws mean everyone becomes a law breaker at some point (just look at traffic laws and how they are obeyed - or not - every day) and that reduces the public trust in "law" as a means of fairly arbitrating disputes. Increasing disdain for the law translates into increasing disdain for those who create and enforce laws. Putting police into a situation where every interaction with citizens is potentially life-threatening creates a "combat" mind-set and encourages more aggressive responses - and an "us vs them" culture. All of these factors mitigate against a healthy society.

 

[mcjon77]

Also, I don't want anyone to get the impression that I am anti-police or have had negative encounters with police. I am a black man on the South Side of Chicago and my encounters with police have been almost 100% positive. In fact, they have been FAR MORE than positive, they have been exceptional. The majority of cops I have encountered have gone out of their way to help me. I have NEVER been stopped without cause. In fact, I have only been stopped ONCE in my life, and that was for a traffic violation (illegal turn on red) that I committed IN FRONT OF THE POLICE OFFICER. Even then, he was cool and gave me a break on the ticket. When I got into a car accident as a teenager, the responding police officer told me exactly what to do to avoid getting a ticket.

The guy who first taught me to shoot rifles well was a reserve cop. The guys who encouraged me to get a firearm and my ccw permit were cops. When my uncle and I ran out of gas on some highway in Ohio, a state trooper gave us enough gas to get to a gas station. When my engine seized up on the highway a (smoking hot) female state trooper came by to make sure I was OK and that help was coming. Those are just the minor instances of cops helping me. There are many many more.

While all of those things are true, I still am VERY aware of two key points:
1) I am the one who is fundamentally responsible for my own protection.
2) Even though I have had fantastic experiences with police, I have to acknowledge that some other people might not, and that their may be abuses and corruption going on. I cannot just say "sucks to be you, cops treat me great" and move on. Those issues need to be addressed.

The thing is

 

[Dean C.]

I'm not sure how successful I'm going to be at making my point, but here goes:

Since the time I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, our society has undergone a sea change. In that time, "Officer Friendly" has somehow disappeared and become "Officer JBT." At least some of this change seems to be cultural; a somewhat "fashionable" view promulgated by anti-war protesters (instigated by - surprise! - communists and their sympathizers) transformed "police officers" into "pigs."

So anti-war protestors were communist sympathizers? The anti-vietnam protests were completely justified, and quite frankly the only wars more pointless than the war in Vietnam are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (but at least the war in Vietnam did not throw the entire region into a state of unrest.) Senator McCarthy called, he says he was wrong.... sorry for the minor thread jacking.

 

[oldpink]

So anti-war protestors were communist sympathizers? The anti-vietnam protests were completely justified, and quite frankly the only wars more pointless than the war in Vietnam are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (but at least the war in Vietnam did not throw the entire region into a state of unrest.) Senator McCarthy called, he says he was wrong.... sorry for the minor thread jacking.

Yes, Vietnam was a debacle, largely due to the way it was conducted (halfass engagements instead of total war) more than the reasons, but you're totally out of it if you can't see that by far the driving force behind the most aggressive protests against it were indeed driven by communists and their allies.
This was a war basically (however poorly conducted and however debatable the justification) against communists, so it goes to follow.
It was the exact same crowd who screeched and called Reagan a "war monger" for having the gall to win the Cold War.
I was there; I saw it from the front row.

 

[cobber]

There are so many things wrong with our criminal justice system right now. The sad thing is if people cared to learn and figure out whats wrong we could fix the system that has been going downhill since the 70's.

Talk to old timers about LE in the 60s and 70s. Today's abuses get press. In the old days no one talked, although 'everyone' knew things were going on.

Remember, Miranda didn't just spring forth from the SCOTUS collective head unbidden...

 

[drillsgt]

Neutering? No, bridling would be more like it. I, on the one hand would like to see an epidemic of Blue Flu, on the other would not want the Decent citizens to be left to the will of the (nonexistent , according to the mayor) thugs.
I am confident that the majority of the police are going to continue to work for the well being of the people, in spite of the calumny of the politicians and race baiters.

I had no idea that my city's police had been federalized. The cities are Fort Worth, Texas; Gary, Indiana; Stockton, California; Birmingham, Alabama; Minneapolis; and Pittsburgh.

I would think that there would be less accountability with federalized police versus local control if that was their goal. You think there's no accountability now just wait until a cop is one of 800,000 within a federal leviathan.

 

[rambone]

Yes, Vietnam was a debacle, largely due to the way it was conducted (halfass engagements instead of total war) more than the reasons, but you're totally out of it if you can't see that by far the driving force behind the most aggressive protests against it were indeed driven by communists and their allies.
This was a war basically (however poorly conducted and however debatable the justification) against communists, so it goes to follow.
It was the exact same crowd who screeched and called Reagan a "war monger" for having the gall to win the Cold War.
I was there; I saw it from the front row.

The craftiest communists were the ones who made Americans think it is patriotic to enslave themselves with debt, for lost causes in the Third World.

 

[AtTheMurph]

The goal as I see it is the same for the police as well as the military. The leftists are attempting to destroy morale and drive the good people out of those institutions. In their place will be the true leftist believers who feel the ends justify the means.

 

[SSGSAD]

The goal as I see it is the same for the police as well as the military. The leftists are attempting to destroy morale and drive the good people out of those institutions. In their place will be the true leftist believers who feel the ends justify the means.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[Blackhawk2001]

So anti-war protestors were communist sympathizers? The anti-vietnam protests were completely justified, and quite frankly the only wars more pointless than the war in Vietnam are the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (but at least the war in Vietnam did not throw the entire region into a state of unrest.) Senator McCarthy called, he says he was wrong.... sorry for the minor thread jacking.

The organization and funding for the original Vietnam war protests certainly did come from the communists, regardless of your view of the merits of such protests. Most of us who were military personnel during the war - whether we served in Vietnam or not - were well aware that the war was being mishandled, but that was "political" rather than tactical. And, in case you don't remember, Cambodia and Laos also fell to communist insurgents and literally millions died as a result (remember Pol Pot?). The Thais are still fighting a communist-inspired insurgency. "Domino Effect." The same sorts of issues drove the Iraq and Afghan conflicts; when casualties started to mount in Iraq, the Democrats sought to sabotage the war effort and certainly encouraged anti-Bush opposition to the war. Notice that once Barak Obama took office, the daily casualty counts disappeared, and when he decided to commit more troops to Afghanistan ala the "Bush Surge" in Iraq, nary a murmur seeped out of the national news media. Doesn't matter if a conflict is "justified" or "unjustified" (usually depends upon whether you win or not) no country is going to win a war unless the government and the people stand behind the military. And when the military forces are hamstrung by Rules Of Engagement which restrict their ability to defeat the enemy and which compromise their safety for no tactical and strategic purpose, there will be no possibility of victory. George Bush warned us that we were in a "generational war" and it seems that we aren't capable of visualizing or conducting such a war.

 

[oldpink]

The craftiest communists were the ones who made Americans think it is patriotic to enslave themselves with debt, for lost causes in the Third World.

Vietnam, Hippies & False Peace | PJ Lifestyle
Really now?

 

[rambone]

Yes, really.

[video=youtube;co73TDl_F7E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co73TDl_F7E[/video]