What is the end goal of neutering this countries police forces?

[Alpo]

I think most of us would agree that the LEO "problem" is a fairly small number of incidents when viewed against the entire spectrum of activities undertaken by a police force on a daily basis. Obviously, being a cop requires many attributes, including intelligence and an ability to control emotions. Frankly, without extensive training, I don't think I could get the "emotion" thing down if I had to deal with the dregs of the community on a daily basis. I salute them for stoicism.

But, that still leaves us with those instances, however rare they might be, where there is abuse of power. I don't have an answer to how this should be handled in a governmental bureaucracy. Other than my time in the service, I haven't been directly exposed to it. But, having spent time in the military, I know how difficult it is to weed out the bad apples. Short of fragging a bad officer in a war zone, there really isn't an effective way to communicate up the chain of command without sacrificing your own career.

I don't have an answer. I support my local department because I know that they are not involved in abusive uses of power. But, I don't trust strange departments that I might have to deal with because of the negative media coverage. I do believe that prosecuting bad acts by LEO's is a major step toward trust, particularly when initiated by the departments themselves.

 

[Woobie]

I think most of us would agree that the LEO "problem" is a fairly small number of incidents when viewed against the entire spectrum of activities undertaken by a police force on a daily basis. Obviously, being a cop requires many attributes, including intelligence and an ability to control emotions. Frankly, without extensive training, I don't think I could get the "emotion" thing down if I had to deal with the dregs of the community on a daily basis. I salute them for stoicism.

But, that still leaves us with those instances, however rare they might be, where there is abuse of power. I don't have an answer to how this should be handled in a governmental bureaucracy. Other than my time in the service, I haven't been directly exposed to it. But, having spent time in the military, I know how difficult it is to weed out the bad apples. Short of fragging a bad officer in a war zone, there really isn't an effective way to communicate up the chain of command without sacrificing your own career.

I don't have an answer. I support my local department because I know that they are not involved in abusive uses of power. But, I don't trust strange departments that I might have to deal with because of the negative media coverage. I do believe that prosecuting bad acts by LEO's is a major step toward trust, particularly when initiated by the departments themselves.

I would add that a good portion of these incidents have a root in bad policy, bad leadership, bad laws, or a combination thereof. I firmly believe some of these "bad" cops are the products of organizational problems.

 

[oldpink]

It would be nice if the anti-cop slobs could be swayed by the fact that the rate of police misconduct is at a historical low level, but then, these people aren't exactly known for rationality or honesty.

 

[AA&E]

I don't know, do you? As I mentioned, some agencies are better than others at providing meaningful and effective training. If you're an expert in adult learning perhaps your local agency could benefit from your expertise.




I can assure you that I sleep quite well at night in spite of having a healthy conscience. It's not being singled out that concerns me, I'm quite capable of defending myself and my performance throughout this career. What ruffles my feathers is when people like you try to hold me accountable for things I have zero knowledge of or control over which is exactly what you are trying to do along with the other liberal morons screaming for disarming the police.



How do you know that? Were you there? Were you present when they gave their statements or spoke to their supervisors about what happened? If, in fact they did not say anything (I would agree with you that they are culpable) what bearing does that have on me or anyone else who was not there?

There you go implying things I never suggested. Please quote a post where I advocated ever disarming police? (not that you really said that, but hell the words are in the same sentence as other accusations so therefore it must be the same as my 'training to shoot first' statement)



I am not holding you accountable for things you have no control over... these were examples that have occurred recently and been in the news. Nothing more. I hold ALL officers accountable for policing their own where the situation requires it. How do I know others were present and did nothing? The footage provided from the officers body cam, the CCTV cameras from the booking area of the police dept. The refusal for officer in question to be reprimanded in any manner whatsoever The fact he wasn't even given paid leave pending an internal investigation (because initially there wasn't one)... that's how I know that. That good enough? It was only after the media started calling, and lawsuits were filed... only after this started getting legs in the current environment that the closed investigation was turned over to internal affairs... a year later. That is how I know.

I am certainly not a teacher... but my group has been involved in providing training to soldiers in the past. Every class has students that are attentive and interested and others that aren't.. for varying reasons. Some just don't want to be there, others are generally disinterested in the subject matter, others have had too many hours the previous night sitting in the bar while TDY. I'd suggest the current atmosphere regarding holding officers accountable for their actions will go a long way to demonstrate to recruits sitting in the Use of Force Training the importance of the subject matter. That on some level is a win for everyone.

When a general statement against the actions of officers a thousand miles away generates this level of response, I can only imagine what the reaction would be if it were someone you had actually served with. Everyone always mocks the families after one of these incidents when they speak of how their loved one was a good guy... I mean sure he had some previous trouble with the law but nothing serious. The comments section of the news article are filled with points of view that if "she hadn't been drunk and gotten herself arrested this would have never happened to her" or "he shouldn't have been drunk driving", or "he shouldn't have ran"...While true, that isn't the point. Someone committing a crime doesn't give an officer the right to commit another crime against that person. If there hadn't been video footage of the officer from 3 weeks ago as he shot that black man in the back as he ran, the officer would have went home a hero (Hell, the guy had his taser remember?) and the family would have made statements just as I mentioned above. And they would have been ridiculed for it by some of the same mentality we see present in this community. That is a damn shame.... a shame that some individuals that view themselves as proponents for rights, in reality are only proponents of some rights and only when it personally impacts them in some way. (not an indictment of everyone)

 

[AA&E]

Negative ghost rider. It has nothing to do with your perceived "blue line mentality". I'm refusing to accept your blame for the actions of others simply because I share their profession. It seems you have a very difficult time grasping this concept but unfortunately I don't know how else to put it.

Please indicate where I held you responsible for the actions I previously mentioned. HINT: I haven't, in fact I have specifically stated they occurred outside your jurisdiction.

 

[AA&E]

Doubtful. The vast majority of officers take their jobs seriously. Insurrection against local, elected, govt isn't something we'd do

I have the same general premise regarding tinhat mentality that the government could orchestrate some level of martial law. The vast majority of soldiers are just like you and I. They would take up arms with us against an unjust attempt of governmental control.

 

[AA&E]

I think most of us would agree that the LEO "problem" is a fairly small number of incidents when viewed against the entire spectrum of activities undertaken by a police force on a daily basis. Obviously, being a cop requires many attributes, including intelligence and an ability to control emotions. Frankly, without extensive training, I don't think I could get the "emotion" thing down if I had to deal with the dregs of the community on a daily basis. I salute them for stoicism.

But, that still leaves us with those instances, however rare they might be, where there is abuse of power. I don't have an answer to how this should be handled in a governmental bureaucracy. Other than my time in the service, I haven't been directly exposed to it. But, having spent time in the military, I know how difficult it is to weed out the bad apples. Short of fragging a bad officer in a war zone, there really isn't an effective way to communicate up the chain of command without sacrificing your own career.

I don't have an answer. I support my local department because I know that they are not involved in abusive uses of power. But, I don't trust strange departments that I might have to deal with because of the negative media coverage. I do believe that prosecuting bad acts by LEO's is a major step toward trust, particularly when initiated by the departments themselves.

Good comments and worded far more eloquently (and diplomatically) than I could have done.

 

[AA&E]

It would be nice if the anti-cop slobs could be swayed by the fact that the rate of police misconduct is at a historical low level, but then, these people aren't exactly known for rationality or honesty.

I don't think anyone is suggesting this is widespread behavior. Although the lack of oversight and discipline is troubling. Lastly, you can't speak of historically low percentages when it was just a recent trend that these incidents are being taken seriously. To grade the bar by looking at a historical average when it's only been the past year these accusations have gained traction and action... that doesn't exactly herald you as being rational or honest.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

I would add that a good portion of these incidents have a root in bad policy, bad leadership, bad laws, or a combination thereof. I firmly believe some of these "bad" cops are the products of organizational problems.

I am pleased to see someone raise this point.

During my tenure with Cincinnati PD I worked for four police chiefs. Each one of them should have been in prison.

I don't think that situation was unique to us.

 

[oldpink]

I don't think anyone is suggesting this is widespread behavior. Although the lack of oversight and discipline is troubling. Lastly, you can't speak of historically low percentages when it was just a recent trend that these incidents are being taken seriously. To grade the bar by looking at a historical average when it's only been the past year these accusations have gained traction and action... that doesn't exactly herald you as being rational or honest.

What do you mean that historical data is irrelevant to this discussion?
Oh, and thanks for perfectly proving my point, while at the same time actually believing that you refuted it.

 

[AA&E]

I am pleased to see someone raise this point.

During my tenure with Cincinnati PD I worked for four police chiefs. Each one of them should have been in prison.

I don't think that situation was unique to us.

This is the most troubling statement in the entire thread.

 

[AA&E]

What do you mean that historical data is irrelevant to this discussion?
Oh, and thanks for perfectly proving my point, while at the same time actually believing that you refuted it.

Not saying it is irrelevant, only that historical data has been skewed by bias automatically granted toward the 'officer is always' right mentality. Oh, you really believe it is a recent occurrence that we've had bad apples in the bunch? That's logical. It's all so clear now...

 

[oldpink]

Not saying it is irrelevant, only that historical data has been skewed by bias automatically granted toward the 'officer is always' right mentality. Oh, you really believe it is a recent occurrence that we've had bad apples in the bunch? That's logical. It's all so clear now...

Lemme guess, you're one of those mental giants who believe that cops should "shoot to wound," aren't you?

 

[AA&E]

Lemme guess, you're one of those mental giants who believe that cops should "shoot to wound," aren't you?

Have some statement made to back up that conclusion, Einstein?

You are one of those that doesn't see anything wrong with the events going on around you, aren't you?

Yeah, you are obviously of superior intellect.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Have some statement made to back up that conclusion, Einstein?

You are one of those that doesn't see anything wrong with the events going on around you, aren't you?

Yeah, you are obviously of superior intellect.

I've got a suggestion for you: Why don't you ask to do a "ride-along" with a major police department some Friday or Saturday night on the late shift? Say, since you live in Southern Indiana, the Louisville PD. I've heard they have a fairly good reputation. You correspond like you have no real-world knowledge of what police officers in big cities do - and don't do - on a regular basis. Perhaps you wouldn't be so quick to talk past police officers and their experiences if you had some actual experience to go by which might provide context for an opinion one way or another.

 

[D-Ric902]

I have no experience or knowledge of tactics and doctrine but I would like to add to the subject.............

cops are bad

 

[mrjarrell]

I think most of us would agree that the LEO "problem" is a fairly small number of incidents when viewed against the entire spectrum of activities undertaken by a police force on a daily basis. Obviously, being a cop requires many attributes, including intelligence and an ability to control emotions. Frankly, without extensive training, I don't think I could get the "emotion" thing down if I had to deal with the dregs of the community on a daily basis. I salute them for stoicism.

But, that still leaves us with those instances, however rare they might be, where there is abuse of power. I don't have an answer to how this should be handled in a governmental bureaucracy. Other than my time in the service, I haven't been directly exposed to it. But, having spent time in the military, I know how difficult it is to weed out the bad apples. Short of fragging a bad officer in a war zone, there really isn't an effective way to communicate up the chain of command without sacrificing your own career.

I don't have an answer. I support my local department because I know that they are not involved in abusive uses of power. But, I don't trust strange departments that I might have to deal with because of the negative media coverage. I do believe that prosecuting bad acts by LEO's is a major step toward trust, particularly when initiated by the departments themselves.

But are these instances of brutality, misconduct and criminality really "fairly small"? While the instances may not be widespread, they are not uncommon. Some departments are relatively squeaky clean and toe the line, like IMPD seems to. But, we have lots of instances, nationwide that paint a different picture.

PoliceMisconduct.net | The Cato Institute's National Police Misconduct Reporting Project

 

[sbu sailor]

How would martial law stop the election?

Ben Carson: Can Obama use martial law to keep White House post 2016 | Communities Digital News

 

[sbu sailor]

But are these instances of brutality, misconduct and criminality really "fairly small"? While the instances may not be widespread, they are not uncommon. Some departments are relatively squeaky clean and toe the line, like IMPD seems to. But, we have lots of instances, nationwide that paint a different picture.

PoliceMisconduct.net | The Cato Institute's National Police Misconduct Reporting Project

"lots of instances" meaning what? Of all the police/public interactions daily, what percentage do you think meet you criteria above? 50% 10% 2% ? I'm betting that fairly small amount is correct. Since the predominance of camera phones and social media, those incidents get sensationalized to further a groups agenda. I agree the number of these incidents SHOULD be zero... but we don't need to wax dramatic for the sake of argument.