What is the Alt-Right? Maybe you should ask one.

[Alpo]

How did the alt-right effect that outcome? How did the alt-right even influence that outcome?

And, I remain dubious that Steve Bannon himself is even a part of the alt-right.

Bannon, though, was not an experienced political strategist. He was the head of Breitbart News. Just a few months ago, he openly bragged that under his leadership he transformed Breitbart into "the platform of the alt-right movement." Those are his words — not from some distant past, but from this past July.

KING: Alt-right goes full Nazi after Bannon lands White House job - NY Daily News

 

[chipbennett]

KING: Alt-right goes full Nazi after Bannon lands White House job - NY Daily News

That Bannon set a particular editorial position for Breitbart does not prove that he himself ascribes to that position. That action is most likely the result of a business decision.

If he himself has expressed views/beliefs that align with the alt-right, that would be another story.

 

[Alpo]

Splitting hairs, Chip. What a man does tells you what he believes.

 

[AtTheMurph]

It's something I learned in my churchier days that if you ask one of YOU what one of THEM believes, you'll get straw monster tales about what they believe. And, not surprisingly, if you ask someone who IS one of THEM, you'll initially hear an apologists viewpoint. However, if you show a general interest in what they really believe, they'll be much more candid about it than the people telling you the straw monster tales. In short, if you really want to know what a XYZ believes, ask one.

I've observed that the same is generally true about political viewpoints as well. If you really want to know what the Alt-right is. Ask someone who is one.

I'm sure many of you have already heard of Vox Day, a pseudonym of a prominent Alt-Right evangelist. He wrote a blog outlining 16 points of the Alt Right. I think this is probably one of the most honest descriptions of the Alt-right I've seen. So, straight from the keyboard of a man who unapologetically claims to be alt-right, THIS is the Alt Right:

Vox Popoli: What the Alt Right is

I posted this to open a discussion about the Alt Right and not to argue about what people who aren't alt right say it is. Let's start from the basis of what the Alt Right actually states that it is.






This thread is dedicated to Kut and Chip.

The Alt-Right is a label made up by leftist who will then use it to ridicule all manner of conservatives and conservative positions.

 

[Ericpwp]

How Donald Trump's New Campaign Chief Created an Online Haven for White Nationalists | Mother Jones

This is all I got for the Bannon quote. I'm sure there was no context.

 

[chipbennett]

Splitting hairs, Chip. What a man does tells you what he believes.

No, actually. One represents what an editor sees as fiduciary responsibility to his publication. The other represents personal beliefs. There may be crossover between the two, but the former does not prove the latter.

 

[Alpo]

But doesn't it seem he shifted the philosophy of the publication significantly from the conservative values forged by Brietbart himself? Frankly, if I didn't know better, I'd chalk him up to being a hardcore Irish-Catholic rabble rouser who has been adept at recognizing opportunities between drinking binges.

But, that could be way off.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That Bannon set a particular editorial position for Breitbart does not prove that he himself ascribes to that position. That action is most likely the result of a business decision.

If he himself has expressed views/beliefs that align with the alt-right, that would be another story.

He says he's a economic-Nationalist, not an Ethno-Nationalist. BUT he's admired nationalist movements, and that the Ethno-Nationalist movements in Europe, will change over time.
Bannon is clearly aware of how naive the Anerican public is, by trying to slip that nugget in. He leaves the door open for things outside of the European Ethno-Nationalism, but where else he's talking about? I haven't a clue. And then he pretty much covertly endorses Ethno-Nationalism as not being all that bad, because it will eventually change. Soooo? Ethno-Nationalism can "eventually" be good? Bannon is clever, I'll give him that.

 

[chipbennett]

How Donald Trump's New Campaign Chief Created an Online Haven for White Nationalists | Mother Jones

This is all I got for the Bannon quote. I'm sure there was no context.

Let's look at what Mother Jones (a paragon of objectivity) has to say about Bannon:

Bannon's views often echo those of his devoted followers. He describes Islam as "a political ideology" and Sharia law as "like Nazism, fascism, and communism." On his Sirius XM radio show, he heaped praise on Pamela Geller, whose American Freedom Defense Initiative has been labeled an anti-Muslim hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Bannon called her "one of the leading experts in the country, if not the world," on Islam. And he basically endorsed House Speaker Paul Ryan's primary challenger, businessman Paul Nehlen, who floated the idea of deporting all Muslims from the United States.


During our interview, Bannon took credit for fomenting "this populist nationalist movement" long before Trump came on the scene. He credited Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.)—a Trump endorser and confidant who has suggested that civil rights advocacy groups were "un-American" and "Communist-inspired"—with laying the movement's groundwork. Bannon also pointed to his own films, which include a Sarah Palin biopic and an "exposé" of the Occupy movement, as "very nationalistic films." Trump, he said, "is very late to this party."

So, we have Bannon on board with nationalism (one point for alt-right), and in line with opposing fanatical Islam and Sharia law (not alt-right-specific), supporting Sarah Palin (not alt-right-specific), and opposing the Occupy movement (not alt-right-specific).

Bannon has stoked racist themes himself, notably in a lengthy July post accusing the "Left" of a "plot to take down America" by fixating on police shootings of black citizens. He argued that the five police officers slain in Dallas were murdered "by a #BlackLivesMatter-type activist-turned-sniper." And he accused the mainstream media of an Orwellian "bait-and-switch as reporters and their Democratic allies and mentors seek to twist the subject from topics they don't like to discuss—murderers with evil motives—to topics they do like to discuss, such as gun control." Bannon added, "[H]ere's a thought: What if the people getting shot by the cops did things to deserve it? There are, after all, in this world, some people who are naturally aggressive and violent."

And Bannon opposes BLM (not alt-right-specific).

Back at the RNC, Bannon dismissed Shapiro as a "whiner…I don't think that the alt-right is anti-Semitic at all," he told me. "Are there anti-Semitic people involved in the alt-right? Absolutely. Are there racist people involved in the alt-right? Absolutely. But I don't believe that the movement overall is anti-Semitic."

Here, Bannon describes something about the alt-right. (Note: if Bannon self-identifies with the alt-right, then this statement constitutes a claim on his part that he is neither racist nor an anti-semite.)

That's it. That's all I found from that article regarding Bannon's personal beliefs aligning with the alt-right: Bannon espouses nationalism.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Is Nationalism a good thing Chip, or do you take it to be just a better word for a patriotism.

 

[Ericpwp]

"We're the platform for the alt-right," Bannon told me proudly when I interviewed him at the Republican National Convention (RNC) in July.

This is the quote that is driving everyone crazy. I cannot find it in context, only tons of references to it.

 

[chipbennett]

Is Nationalism a good thing Chip, or do you take it to be just a better word for a patriotism.

This is a bit of a non-sequitur regarding the beliefs of Steve Bannon, and the question of whether his beliefs align with the alt-right.

But to answer your question: it depends on what one means by "nationalism", and to what extent one believes policy should go in supporting it.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

The term "Alt Right" was made up by the Alt Right. It wasn't handed down by the left. It was meant to be an Alternative to traditional conservatism, which they feel failed in its mission.

In many ways it can be compared to the TEA Party. When the TEA Party gained political power the left made a pejorative of that. But there are some differences too. Because the Alt Right has some controversial tenets, the left has capitalized to try to marginalize them, and say every Trump voter is Alt Right. And that is simply not true. Maybe you might agree with some Alt Right principles, and that does not make you an Alt Right supporter. And that does not make the Alt Right necessarily bad or good.

And the left is playing a bad hand trying to marginalize them, because they are drawing attention to the Alt Right which will probably will help them grow. I think the left thinks it defeated the TEA Party by marginalizing it. But that's not why the TEA Party died. _____________________________________*_*_____________________________________________________________ It died because it didn't achieve its goals.

. __________________________________________ Do you think the Tea Party
Is Dead? I think Trump is a direct result of the Tea Party Mentality living and breathing.E very liberal MSM source says they are dead.The RNC has hated them from day one.I think they are in the huddle.

 

[Kutnupe14]

. __________________________________________ Do you think the Tea Party
Is Dead? I think Trump is a direct result of the Tea Party Mentality living and breathing.E very liberal MSM source says they are dead.The RNC has hated them from day one.I think they are in the huddle.

That's fair. Trump is a result of the Tea Party's arguments. No one is saying that Trump is the standard bearer, or is even familiar with the Alt-Right. BUT he did pick a guy who that group looks up to.

 

[jamil]

Coastal elite. LOL.

Believe it or not, Jamil, I don't think INGO is a statistically valid sample of the population that voted for Trump. Between AmmoManAAron and GP, one could get a very narrow view of reality.

I can name many things that I am angry about, even though I wouldn't vote for Trump, and they align perfectly with the anger of those who did vote for Trump.

I don't think fascism is the answer, however.

I'd never advocate fascism. Remember, I'm not exactly a fan of the Alt Right. I just want to be accurate about exactly what they are and what they aren't. Fascists? In the spectrum but not specifically fascist. That's how I read it. Same with Trump. Not a fascist. Blowhard? Well yeah.

 

[Alpo]

Hitler was a single man who was too scared to take his letter of introduction to the art school in Vienna.

1488. Spencer's White Nationalist Conference.....it always starts small.

 

[Ericpwp]

A Vietnamese porn star, and is that David Chappelle back there? It IS a brave new world.

 

[Ericpwp]

Context:

[FONT=&quot]Well, obviously, we were doing the Roman salute. We were just trolling around. Everyone was making such a big deal about this event, and all these people were Nazis or whatever. I’m obviously not white and I think it’s so funny to get a rise out of people who are so easily triggered by things like that. [/FONT]

Tila Tequila says people need to chill out over her Nazi salute

 

[Kutnupe14]

Context:

Tila Tequila says people need to chill out over her Nazi salute

riiiiiiight. she's full of it. The Dutch would be shaving her head.

 

[jamil]

riiiiiiight. she's full of it. The Dutch would be shaving her head.