What is "Black Lives Matter"?

[Kutnupe14]

A lot of the supposed problem with race in America is that we pay way too much attention to those who profit from the controversy. Ignoring the race baiters would go a long way towards us getting back to all of us just being Americans again.

For example....

Former DOJ Prosecutor Sues Obama, Black Lives Matter And Eric Holder For Inciting Race War | Zero Hedge

Good luck with that.

 

[Kutnupe14]

KLM, I mean seriously, who are we kidding? Whether it's referred to as ghetto or gangster, it's the commonly held belief that those are synonymous (in most instances), again most instances, with black culture.

No, you may perceive it that way but black is not by default ghetto. Big difference between the two in the way a person carries themselves.

I disagree. While blacks are portrayed more in that way, there are a lot of Hispanic and White gangster types around. Blacks may have lead the gangster style train, but they are far from the only ones on it.

Tombs to the rescue. He seems to disagree. He does actually contradict himself, but he makes it fair clear that he's not black, didn't grow up in the ghetto, and his post is clearly about the black community. So is he in the minority, majority, or is his notion typically split between?

It was not a PC way of avoiding saying black, stop playing victim.

I drew parallels with communities I even see out in the country. It's(ghetto culture) the culture of poverty and disenfranchisement. You see it around the world.


And reactions like that are why nobody wants to sit down and discuss issues with the black community. Instead of trying to offer up a solution or a correction to the statement, the entire argument is disregarded. You expect me to be unbiased? How can I possibly be unbiased? I'm not black, I did not grow up in a ghetto, I am viewing things from the outside looking in and you refuse to bump the conversation in the right direction.

Victim? "Ghetto culture," is the culture of poverty and disenfranchisement? I thought we tried to lockdown that term as being related to the inner-city?
I disregarded you, because you act like you're speaking from knowledge rather than supposition. If you think the pinnacle of modern black accomplishment rests with for rappers, then I assure you, there's an incredible amount of information concerning this subject, that you haven't a clue about. Even on INGO, I would expect the vast majority of members to know better... but you, I had a hunch didn't.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Ghetto is kind of relative. I grew up in the projects in a suburb north of buffalo ny. That wasn't as 'ghetto' as parts of buffalo. color had no boundaries in either I can assure you.
Nothing prepared me for bedford stuyvesant in brooklyn. Ghetto there meant building that looked like shells of a building that was bombed. it was bizarre

 

[BugI02]

"The English word "ghetto" comes from the Jewish area of Venice, the Venetian Ghetto in Cannaregio. However, there is no agreement among etymologists about the origins of the Venetian language term. The various theories trace it to: a special use of Venetian getto, or "foundry" (there was one near the site of that city's ghetto in 1516); Yiddish get, or "deed of separation"; a clipped form of Egitto ("Egypt"), from Latin Aegyptus (presumably in memory of the exile); or Italian borghetto, or "small section of a town" (diminutive of borgo, which is of Germanic origin; see borough). By 1899 the term had been extended to crowded urban quarters of other minority groups (especially blacks in U.S. cities)."


Hmmm. Seems like the word 'ghetto' doesn't always refer to blacks at all
Prolly better talk to the jews about 'ghetto culture'

 

[Kutnupe14]

"The English word "ghetto" comes from the Jewish area of Venice, the Venetian Ghetto in Cannaregio. However, there is no agreement among etymologists about the origins of the Venetian language term. The various theories trace it to: a special use of Venetian getto, or "foundry" (there was one near the site of that city's ghetto in 1516); Yiddish get, or "deed of separation"; a clipped form of Egitto ("Egypt"), from Latin Aegyptus (presumably in memory of the exile); or Italian borghetto, or "small section of a town" (diminutive of borgo, which is of Germanic origin; see borough). By 1899 the term had been extended to crowded urban quarters of other minority groups (especially blacks in U.S. cities)."


Hmmm. Seems like the word 'ghetto' doesn't always refer to blacks at all
Prolly better talk to the jews about 'ghetto culture'

Bug, you posted the etymology of the word ghetto. Not the commonly understood definition.
Which is:

ghet·to
ˈɡedō/
noun
noun: ghetto; plural noun: ghettoes; plural noun: ghettos
-a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.


To give you an example, the word mortgage has a French origin, and literally means a "Death Pledge."...not related to home ownership. And while some people may look at it say, "that's spot on," I am unaware of anyone being killed because they defaulted on their home.

Point being, meanings of words change, and it is unrealistic to look at a words etymology and try to apply it's exact meaning, when it was first coined, to modern definitions today.

Surely that makes sense, right? Or should we be talking about killing people whose homes have been repossessed?

 

[Tombs]

Tombs to the rescue. He seems to disagree. He does actually contradict himself, but he makes it fair clear that he's not black, didn't grow up in the ghetto, and his post is clearly about the black community. So is he in the minority, majority, or is his notion typically split between?





Victim? "Ghetto culture," is the culture of poverty and disenfranchisement? I thought we tried to lockdown that term as being related to the inner-city?
I disregarded you, because you act like you're speaking from knowledge rather than supposition. If you think the pinnacle of modern black accomplishment rests with for rappers, then I assure you, there's an incredible amount of information concerning this subject, that you haven't a clue about. Even on INGO, I would expect the vast majority of members to know better... but you, I had a hunch didn't.

I keep asking and I keep getting this.

You have a platform to set the record straight and school me on the issue, I'm all ears. I can't read your mind.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I keep asking and I keep getting this.

You have a platform to set the record straight and school me on the issue, I'm all ears. I can't read your mind.

What have you asked, rather than declared?

 

[Tombs]

What have you asked, rather than declared?

I gave my views of what I see going on and what I perceive as the issue.

I ended that comment by asking you if what I am seeing is really what it is, and if not, what's wrong. If part of it is wrong, correct what's wrong.

My manner of speech may not be polished enough to convey that I wasn't making a declaration, that's why I included that statement at the end of my post.

 

[churchmouse]

I gave my views of what I see going on and what I perceive as the issue.

I ended that comment by asking you if what I am seeing is really what it is, and if not, what's wrong. If part of it is wrong, correct what's wrong.

My manner of speech may not be polished enough to convey that I wasn't making a declaration, that's why I included that statement at the end of my post.

I saw that.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I gave my views of what I see going on and what I perceive as the issue.

I ended that comment by asking you if what I am seeing is really what it is, and if not, what's wrong. If part of it is wrong, correct what's wrong.

My manner of speech may not be polished enough to convey that I wasn't making a declaration, that's why I included that statement at the end of my post.

Well, if anything, you need to start from scratch, open your mind, and try to put yourself in the shoes of people that aren't like you. I think you lack empathy and have a more difficult time than most (even on INGO) getting it. That's my opinion. If you lack the ability to empathize, then its a waste of time having a discussion with you.

 

[BugI02]

Bug, you posted the etymology of the word ghetto. Not the commonly understood definition.
Which is:

ghet·to
ˈɡedō/
noun
noun: ghetto; plural noun: ghettoes; plural noun: ghettos
-a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.


To give you an example, the word mortgage has a French origin, and literally means a "Death Pledge."...not related to home ownership. And while some people may look at it say, "that's spot on," I am unaware of anyone being killed because they defaulted on their home.

Point being, meanings of words change, and it is unrealistic to look at a words etymology and try to apply it's exact meaning, when it was first coined, to modern definitions today.

Surely that makes sense, right? Or should we be talking about killing people whose homes have been repossessed?

But if I drill into the first color highlighted clip, you see that the word ghetto was already in use - with its modern meaning - well before it came to be associated with majority black areas in cities.

"Beginning in 1516, Jews were restricted to living in the Venetian Ghetto. It was enclosed by guarded gates and no one was allowed to leave from sunset to dawn. However, Jews held successful positions in the city such as merchants, physicians, money lenders, and other trades. Restrictions on daily Jewish life continued for more than 270 years, until Napoleon Bonaparte conquered the Venetian Republic in 1797. He removed the gates and gave all residents the freedom to live where they chose."

It is indeed possible to use the word ghetto without specifically implying (black) ghetto although likely increasingly rare

 

[Tombs]

Well, if anything, you need to start from scratch, open your mind, and try to put yourself in the shoes of people that aren't like you. I think you lack empathy and have a more difficult time than most (even on INGO) getting it. That's my opinion. If you lack the ability to empathize, then its a waste of time having a discussion with you.

What does empathy have to do with correcting my views on what's functionally going on?

I can see empathy giving an excuse, but it's not an explanation of how things work.

 

[slowG]

I see a lot of tip toeing around from everyone.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What does empathy have to do with correcting my views on what's functionally going on?

I can see empathy giving an excuse, but it's not an explanation of how things work.

When Audie Murphy attempted to join the Navy, the recruiter told him "The Navy prides itself on turning boys into men, but you're too much of a job for us."

Bro, you're too much a job. Your understanding of empathy is flawed, if you don't understand how it allows one to correct/modify/confirm one's views. You're, IMO, too far behind the curve for me to try explain in the most minute detail (and I'm already pretty detailed) of the things surrounding these issues. If you honestly want to know, you'll educate yourself. If it's too much of a bother, then you probably don't want to understand that badly.

 

[bwframe]

Was Kut on the Kelly Files tonight?


[video=youtube;eZJ7QSI7uV0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJ7QSI7uV0[/video]

 

[Tombs]

When Audie Murphy attempted to join the Navy, the recruiter told him "The Navy prides itself on turning boys into men, but you're too much of a job for us."

Bro, you're too much a job. Your understanding of empathy is flawed, if you don't understand how it allows one to correct/modify/confirm one's views. You're, IMO, too far behind the curve for me to try explain in the most minute detail (and I'm already pretty detailed) of the things surrounding these issues. If you honestly want to know, you'll educate yourself. If it's too much of a bother, then you probably don't want to understand that badly.

 

[jamil]

I disagree. While blacks are portrayed more in that way, there are a lot of Hispanic and White gangster types around. Blacks may have lead the gangster style train, but they are far from the only ones on it.

if we're talking about a 10 car 'gangsta' train, Whites occupy 1 car. Blacks occupy 4 cars. Hispanics occupy 5 cars. So Blacks don't lead the train.

Victim? "Ghetto culture," is the culture of poverty and disenfranchisement? I thought we tried to lockdown that term as being related to the inner-city?
I disregarded you, because you act like you're speaking from knowledge rather than supposition. If you think the pinnacle of modern black accomplishment rests with for rappers, then I assure you, there's an incredible amount of information concerning this subject, that you haven't a clue about. Even on INGO, I would expect the vast majority of members to know better... but you, I had a hunch didn't.

I think insofar as Black leaders, you're talking about pinnacles of accomplishment, Tombs is talking about most culturally influential. In those terms, I'd say Barack Obama is probably the most accomplished having reached what most consider the ultimate accomplishment. And, I'd say that Black Rap artists arguably have a lot of influence in Black culture, but I realize I'm saying that as an observer and not as a participant (I hate Rap, though I did find myself tapping my toes watching the OPP vid. The rhythms are mathematically satisfying).

And that brings in the subject of "empathy", as it is important to have an informed opinion rather than just having an opinion.

Well, if anything, you need to start from scratch, open your mind, and try to put yourself in the shoes of people that aren't like you. I think you lack empathy and have a more difficult time than most (even on INGO) getting it. That's my opinion. If you lack the ability to empathize, then its a waste of time having a discussion with you.

What does empathy have to do with correcting my views on what's functionally going on?

I can see empathy giving an excuse, but it's not an explanation of how things work.

Empathy is being able to understand and interpret the circumstances of others from their point of view. Understanding their point of view won't necessarily change yours, but it can help inform it. We can look a other cultures and accurately point out outward symptoms of problems, but without empathy, we will tend to project our own ideas about causes.

I'll use gun control as an example. My brother-in-law has a world view where he believes people are basically good and benevolent, there is no inherent evil, and sometimes people do evil things because their circumstances drive them to drastic measures because society has oppressed them somehow. He believes that guns in citizens' hands cause them to do evil things that they wouldn't do if they didn't have guns. He thinks it is immoral for citizens to arm themselves in public, and he thinks it is immoral to use lethal force in self defense.

I have a different world view. I think humans are not different from most creatures in that we are self interested. In a populous world of self interested people, morality and some level of civic cooperation is necessary for self preservation. Some people have no sense of morality. They are inherently evil and will harm others in their own self interest. I believe people have a right to defend themselves against harm with necessary force.

Not understanding--not empathizing with--my world view, my brother-in-law thinks I am immoral for carrying a gun in public. He is projecting his world view on my behavior. Because of that lack of empathy, the solutions he would choose to solve the problems of violence is to take away my ability to protect myself with guns. Yet he feels perfectly justified in his reasoning without empathy.

I've lived parts of my life as very poor, wanting more, and I've lived parts of my life, not rich, but satisfied. I can't empathize with people living in the ghetto. I can't imagine them wanting that life. I can only look at symptoms and precursors to poverty, and believe that addressing the precursors can't hurt.

Lack of opportunities coupled with cycles of dependency, to me, seems to be the greatest enablers of poverty in the inner city. I can look at Detroit as an example that tends to prove that the logical conclusion of progressive policies ultimately leads to utter destruction of communities. And the more they fail, the more they blame it on people with different world views.

 

[Kutnupe14]

You post was excellent... I just want to expound on this part:

I think insofar as Black leaders, you're talking about pinnacles of accomplishment, Tombs is talking about most culturally influential. In those terms, I'd say Barack Obama is probably the most accomplished having reached what most consider the ultimate accomplishment. And, I'd say that Black Rap artists arguably have a lot of influence in Black culture, but I realize I'm saying that as an observer and not as a participant (I hate Rap, though I did find myself tapping my toes watching the OPP vid. The rhythms are mathematically satisfying).

Barack Obama, and let's not forget Martin Luther King Jr, Malcom X, hands down, are the most culturally influential figures. That's my opinion, as I most certainly don't claim to speak for the entire black race. Look at the multitudes of people taking to the streets. IMO, their work isn't as noble, but there's no denying what's being paid homage to.

And sure, rap artists have a lot of influence, not in black, not in white.... but all the cultures that make up America. Surely no one thinks rappers are getting rich solely from the support of black people. Hell tickets to a concert cost upward of $130 and some big name events. The influence they have is pretty much confined to being emulated. People want to dress like them and have buy the things with their faces on, or they may go so far as to try and be a rapper themselves. That's about it. I've never heard of a person wanting to live in poverty or commit crimes because that's suggested by their favorite rapper. Heck lots of rappers went to college, like: Lil Wayne, Ludacris, Rick Ross, and Kanye West... and those guys are easily some of the biggest names in the hip-hop industry.

Somehow, if were applying the same logic, I don't really buy that a highwayman during the middle ages started robbing people because he was inspired by the local bard. Or some stage coach robber inspired by a folk singer at the saloon. People, most often commit crimes because they want something they don't have, and someone else does. It's a pretty much as simple as that... musical inspiration not required.

 

[jamil]

You post was excellent... I just want to expound on this part:



Barack Obama, and let's not forget Martin Luther King Jr, Malcom X, hands down, are the most culturally influential figures. That's my opinion, as I most certainly don't claim to speak for the entire black race. Look at the multitudes of people taking to the streets. IMO, their work isn't as noble, but there's no denying what's being paid homage to.

And sure, rap artists have a lot of influence, not in black, not in white.... but all the cultures that make up America. Surely no one thinks rappers are getting rich solely from the support of black people. Hell tickets to a concert cost upward of $130 and some big name events. The influence they have is pretty much confined to being emulated. People want to dress like them and have buy the things with their faces on, or they may go so far as to try and be a rapper themselves. That's about it. I've never heard of a person wanting to live in poverty or commit crimes because that's suggested by their favorite rapper. Heck lots of rappers went to college, like: Lil Wayne, Ludacris, Rick Ross, and Kanye West... and those guys are easily some of the biggest names in the hip-hop industry.

Somehow, if were applying the same logic, I don't really buy that a highwayman during the middle ages started robbing people because he was inspired by the local bard. Or some stage coach robber inspired by a folk singer at the saloon. People, most often commit crimes because they want something they don't have, and someone else does. It's a pretty much as simple as that... musical inspiration not required.

I have no idea why Rap is so popular. Improvisational Jazz is so much more satisfying. It is actually musical. Rap can be musical. But usually it is the same all background rhythms and riffs, plus talk that really isn't all that poetic. How poetic can one rhyme about a ho? One of the reasons I like Jazz, it's usually instrumental. It's the ultimate purpose of art. The sound says whatever the listener hears.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I have no idea why Rap is so popular. Improvisational Jazz is so much more satisfying. It is actually musical. Rap can be musical. But usually it is the same all background rhythms and riffs, plus talk that really isn't all that poetic. How poetic can one rhyme about a ho? One of the reasons I like Jazz, it's usually instrumental. It's the ultimate purpose of art. The sound says whatever the listener hears.

The best way I can describe rap, is like wine. If you don't like wine, you haven't tasted enough of it. Jazz fans tend to like the jazz infused hip hop instrumentals, with no, or very little vocals.