What is "Black Lives Matter"?

[Gary119]

I got the jello and the plastic pool.... oh, wait, wrong forum.... You're not S&Mgurl213

Your meds have kicked in haven't they?

PS.Hope you heal fast.

PSS. I'll have you know I'm not white, I'm more of a "one shade off from turkey turd tan".*

*in remembrance of Don, RIP buddy.

 

[MisterChester]

I work downtown. These guys were protesting outside of my building yesterday.

 

[bwframe]

[video=youtube;T0QvPhmQOQ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0QvPhmQOQ8[/video]

 

[Kutnupe14]

If you had a graph of violent crimes per million broken down by race it should line up with your first graph pretty well. More violent crime = more potential violent interactions with police.

Ya know, America is simply obsessed with race. We break down so much of our issues based on race. And when people assert it's this race or that race that has an issue, then conversely members of that race are also going to speak in racial terms, while defending themselves.

For instance, "Do black people commit more crimes?" The answer "yes." The more important question, is "Do black people commit more crimes because they are Black?" Followed by "Does the level of melanin in one's skin indicate a propensity to commit more crime?" To this, I'll say flat out.... You probably are a racist if you believe that. So there's absolutely zero reason to speak in terms of skin color.

"Do black people that make more than $100K/yr commit more crimes, per capita, than white people at or below the poverty line?" The answer in no.

So when people talk about "certain cultures," should they be talking about the culture of race, or the culture of poverty and location (location plays a huge role, btw)? I think that fair question to be asked, and it's unfortunate that more people, in our race obsessed culture, don't offer this up more. Now sure, there is a racial component to crimes, but IMO, it's usually confined to the overall system of enforcement, and ingrained biases of the public, not the ethnicity of the offender.

 

[Tombs]

Ya know, America is simply obsessed with race. We break down so much of our issues based on race. And when people assert it's this race or that race that has an issue, then conversely members of that race are also going to speak in racial terms, while defending themselves.

For instance, "Do black people commit more crimes?" The answer "yes." The more important question, is "Do black people commit more crimes because they are Black?" Followed by "Does the level of melanin in one's skin indicate a propensity to commit more crime?" To this, I'll say flat out.... You probably are a racist if you believe that. So there's absolutely zero reason to speak in terms of skin color.

"Do black people that make more than $100K/yr commit more crimes, per capita, than white people at or below the poverty line?" The answer in no.

So when people talk about "certain cultures," should they be talking about the culture of race, or the culture of poverty and location (location plays a huge role, btw)? I think that fair question to be asked, and it's unfortunate that more people, in our race obsessed culture, don't offer this up more. Now sure, there is a racial component to crimes, but IMO, it's usually confined to the overall system of enforcement, and ingrained biases of the public, not the ethnicity of the offender.

So where to even begin...

The problem with that culture boils down to the issue that so many people tie it so closely to race that speaking out against it is considered racist. Even though it's a culture that perpetuates poverty and violence, it's promoted to the black community from the top down as if the media wants it to be a role model. It's obviously not a racial thing since there's a considerably large amount of whites who subscribe to it as well.

If it were ever possible to drop the incessant labeling of racism to anyone who dares challenge that culture's impact on the community, it might be possible to walk back its negative influences and start lifting people out of poverty as they see the world in a different light and develop better role models and goals.

What makes it different in white communities is that the culture of poverty and violence is widely despised and results in social ostracism. While it might be acceptable inside small communities, it is not glorified and pushed from the top down as a role model.

 

[Kutnupe14]

So where to even begin...

The problem with that culture boils down to the issue that so many people tie it so closely to race that speaking out against it is considered racist. Even though it's a culture that perpetuates poverty and violence, it's promoted to the black community from the top down as if the media wants it to be a role model. It's obviously not a racial thing since there's a considerably large amount of whites who subscribe to it as well.

If it were ever possible to drop the incessant labeling of racism to anyone who dares challenge that culture's impact on the community, it might be possible to walk back its negative influences and start lifting people out of poverty as they see the world in a different light and develop better role models and goals.

What makes it different in white communities is that the culture of poverty and violence is widely despised and results in social ostracism. While it might be acceptable inside small communities, it is not glorified and pushed from the top down as a role model.

I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong. Can you cite me black people at the "top," that perpetuate poverty and crime? Or are these black people not considered a part of black culture?
Who are the "so many people" that tie this "culture" to race? And if you are calling this "culture," black, then what culture is the rest of massive instances of crime and poverty, amongst non-blacks, tied to?
In one post, you proved my entire point; that the obsession with race trumps all other possibilities.

Ok, so I asked you several questions:
-Can you cite me blacks at the "top" that perpetuate violence and crime?
-Are black people at the "top," considered part of black culture, and if not, which culture?
-Who are the so many people that tie this culture to race
-If the culture you are referring is "black culture," then what culture do other people that commit (the more numerous in raw numbers) subscribe to?

I'd appreciate an answer to these.

 

[Tombs]

I'm sorry, but that is just flat out wrong. Can you cite me black people at the "top," that perpetuate poverty and crime? Or are these black people not considered a part of black culture?
Who are the "so many people" that tie this "culture" to race? And if you are calling this "culture," black, then what culture is the rest of massive instances of crime and poverty, amongst non-blacks, tied to?
In one post, you proved my entire point; that the obsession with race trumps all other possibilities.

Ok, so I asked you several questions:
-Can you cite me blacks at the "top" that perpetuate violence and crime?
Look at any multi-millionaire rapper, T.I., Tupac, ODB, etc. That's just a small example of one facet. Not saying they're responsible, a lot of them probably just perpetuate the circumstances they grew up under. I'm not sure what the popular people are of today. For that matter, the behavior of some of the top individuals in BLM don't help matters, and look more like perpetuation of the problems they want to escape more than seeking a solution to them.
-Are black people at the "top," considered part of black culture, and if not, which culture?
I never mentioned "black culture" anywhere. "Black culture" can mean some extremely different things depending on where you are. Not sure if it's an official title, but ghetto culture is the only fitting word that comes to mind.
-Who are the so many people that tie this culture to race
Any time I try to have a discussion with anyone on the topic, they claim I am not talking about a culture, but I am talking about a race. Any time I see it brought up in the media, I see the same thing happen. As if criticisms of this culture are somehow a taboo.
-If the culture you are referring is "black culture," then what culture do other people that commit (the more numerous in raw numbers) subscribe to?
????
I'd appreciate an answer to these.

Ghetto culture looks the same for all races to me, so I'm not sure of the racial component. For some reason it's still taboo to criticize in any social circle I've been around, as it is instantly equated to racism against blacks. (which seems a bit ironic to me)

Core component is hopelessness that this is all the better that you can achieve, and that anyone who does climb out of it is somehow too good for his community and ostracized, placing social pressure on people to not try for a better life. And of course for this system of belief to work, there always has to be an enemy who is responsible for it. It's self perpetuating, and with a component of glorification from the top, it is made to look socially acceptable to broader circles cementing it as some sort of identity, which I believe contributes to its continuing existence even though quality of life continues to rise.

Considering I live out in the sticks, I see many parallels with sections of the population around here as well. The big difference is that I don't see their brand of ghetto culture promoted as a positive identity. More like I see it widely shunned as unacceptable, distasteful, and destructive. I assume that's why it doesn't grow very far, and has been slowly disappearing over the years.

If I'm totally wrong on this, feel free to school me on the subject matter, I'm not looking to push forward an idea but have a discussion. I'm basically asking for you to put the puzzle pieces together for me so I have a better understanding.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Ya know, America is simply obsessed with race. We break down so much of our issues based on race. And when people assert it's this race or that race that has an issue, then conversely members of that race are also going to speak in racial terms, while defending themselves.

For instance, "Do black people commit more crimes?" The answer "yes." The more important question, is "Do black people commit more crimes because they are Black?" Followed by "Does the level of melanin in one's skin indicate a propensity to commit more crime?" To this, I'll say flat out.... You probably are a racist if you believe that. So there's absolutely zero reason to speak in terms of skin color.

"Do black people that make more than $100K/yr commit more crimes, per capita, than white people at or below the poverty line?" The answer in no.

So when people talk about "certain cultures," should they be talking about the culture of race, or the culture of poverty and location (location plays a huge role, btw)? I think that fair question to be asked, and it's unfortunate that more people, in our race obsessed culture, don't offer this up more. Now sure, there is a racial component to crimes, but IMO, it's usually confined to the overall system of enforcement, and ingrained biases of the public, not the ethnicity of the offender.

I grew up in the military environment, my dad was career, 22 years. 20-25% of the kids were black and the same proportion of my friends were as well. This happened over and over again, from base to base (this was back when transfers were every 2-3 years, mandatory). We all learned to adapt, make friends and get along.

About the only "us" vs "them" that took place was "enlisted's kids" versus "officer's kids", and normally, only then if the kid thought HE was an officer. Completely different experiences when dad retired. I'm 100% confident that my black friends experinced a similar "shock" when their (back then it was mostly) dads retired or left the service.

I can categorically state, it is NOT the color of the skin... it's where and how you grow up.

 

[BugI02]

If I came from the architecturally soulless concrete wasteland known as Japan, I would take pride in being "Too Americanized."

Indeed

View attachment 48428

 

[Tombs]

Indeed

View attachment 48428

Yes, rural communities almost anywhere can be beautiful. My point is that their cities are some of the most depressingly drab things I have ever seen.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Ghetto culture looks the same for all races to me, so I'm not sure of the racial component. For some reason it's still taboo to criticize in any social circle I've been around, as it is instantly equated to racism against blacks. (which seems a bit ironic to me)

Core component is hopelessness that this is all the better that you can achieve, and that anyone who does climb out of it is somehow too good for his community and ostracized, placing social pressure on people to not try for a better life. And of course for this system of belief to work, there always has to be an enemy who is responsible for it. It's self perpetuating, and with a component of glorification from the top, it is made to look socially acceptable to broader circles cementing it as some sort of identity, which I believe contributes to its continuing existence even though quality of life continues to rise.

Considering I live out in the sticks, I see many parallels with sections of the population around here as well. The big difference is that I don't see their brand of ghetto culture promoted as a positive identity. More like I see it widely shunned as unacceptable, distasteful, and destructive. I assume that's why it doesn't grow very far, and has been slowly disappearing over the years.

If I'm totally wrong on this, feel free to school me on the subject matter, I'm not looking to push forward an idea but have a discussion. I'm basically asking for you to put the puzzle pieces together for me so I have a better understanding.

Funny, I honestly was hoping that you wouldn't do what I figured you would do.... but you did. Listing 4 rappers as representative of the "top" of black community, not only shows a pretty substantial bias, but prevented me from reading any further. Unfortunately, it wasn't surprising.

 

[PaulF]

Funny, I honestly was hoping that you wouldn't do what I figured you would do.... but you did. Listing 4 rappers as representative of the "top" of black community, not only shows a pretty substantial bias, but prevented me from reading any further. Unfortunately, it wasn't surprising.

Do you mean to tell me that WARRANT was not the pinnacle of white culture?

Heresy.

Cherry Pie was clearly a message of hope and salvation.

 

[jamil]

Ya know, America is simply obsessed with race. We break down so much of our issues based on race. And when people assert it's this race or that race that has an issue, then conversely members of that race are also going to speak in racial terms, while defending themselves.

For instance, "Do black people commit more crimes?" The answer "yes." The more important question, is "Do black people commit more crimes because they are Black?" Followed by "Does the level of melanin in one's skin indicate a propensity to commit more crime?" To this, I'll say flat out.... You probably are a racist if you believe that. So there's absolutely zero reason to speak in terms of skin color.

"Do black people that make more than $100K/yr commit more crimes, per capita, than white people at or below the poverty line?" The answer in no.

So when people talk about "certain cultures," should they be talking about the culture of race, or the culture of poverty and location (location plays a huge role, btw)? I think that fair question to be asked, and it's unfortunate that more people, in our race obsessed culture, don't offer this up more. Now sure, there is a racial component to crimes, but IMO, it's usually confined to the overall system of enforcement, and ingrained biases of the public, not the ethnicity of the offender.

Yeah. We are way too obsessed with race. I'd not bring it up at all if no one else did. But, you know, Black lives matter. Doesn't that automatically bring race into the conversation? If we're going to talk about why police shoot Blacks at a higher rate, it's fair to talk about why Blacks make up disproportionately higher portion of encounters.

Surely it has nothing to do with skin color. Science tells us that the difference in DNA between races isn't much. DNA doesn't cause one race to be more violent than others. But it's like we talked about earlier, it's more an issue of culture than it is about race.

Poverty certainly correlates with crime. The statistics are evident. But that can't be the entire cause. It's more of an enabler maybe. Looking at violent crime, what about Appalachia? The area is predominantly White, poverty stricken, but the violent crime rates there aren't much different from the national average.

Some possible contributors: The peer pressure in urban communities is different as Tombs pointed out. Status or appearance of status seems to be more important in Black culture. Not that it's unimportant among Whites, but look around Appalachia. Does it look like they care much what people think of their status? No one in Appalachia is gonna kill anyone for their Nikes, and if they did, it would be so they could sell them to people who care about shoes so they can go buy some oxy, or skiddle some pseudo.

And that brings up another point. Maybe satisfaction has something to do with it. Where I lived in Mississippi, only new communities were planned. In older developed areas large plantation style mansions juxtaposed with tiny shacks. People who lived in the shacks eked out an existence and generally didn't want handouts. They chop wood to burn in the winter. Hunt or fish for most of their food. They find a way to be satisfied with what they are, and most don't seem to want to take it from their neighbors living in the mansions, or join gangs, or whatnot. Maybe they've just given up and accepted their lot.

Whatever the difference, Blacks and Hispanics make up the gang population way more than whites. Maybe that has something to do with single-mom rates. Single parent families by race seem to correlate fairly well with gang membership by race.

Our leaders don't seem to want to talk openly about that kind of stuff. It's not going to get solved until they do.

 

[KLB]

Funny, I honestly was hoping that you wouldn't do what I figured you would do.... but you did. Listing 4 rappers as representative of the "top" of black community, not only shows a pretty substantial bias, but prevented me from reading any further. Unfortunately, it wasn't surprising.

Seems like you two are talking past each other. You say "black", he says "ghetto". I get the feeling something is getting lost in translation.

Is there a "black culture" beyond the gangster culture glamorized by our entertainment industries? Does any culture actually cover so many people?

Is there a white culture? I don't see one. My wife's family has a very different culture than we do. We are all white and live about 15 miles apart all in rural areas. What we do not have in common is my wife and I have both worked hard to get good careers, while they all sit around the poverty line with no prospects of ever moving beyond that.

 

[printcraft]

Seems like you two are talking past each other. You say "black", he says "ghetto". I get the feeling something is getting lost in translation..

This^^^^^

Just as there is a distinction between white and white trash, there is a mindset in low economic groups that is different. It goes across the board.
BUT in the modern media..... The ghetto culture gets promoted for some unknown reason instead of flat out rejected and shunned. Why? Who is doing that and for WHAT reason?
If you can keep people distracted ... you can keep them down..... Keep them voting for you.... Keep them slaves.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yeah. We are way too obsessed with race. I'd not bring it up at all if no one else did. But, you know, Black lives matter. Doesn't that automatically bring race into the conversation? If we're going to talk about why police shoot Blacks at a higher rate, it's fair to talk about why Blacks make up disproportionately higher portion of encounters.

Surely it has nothing to do with skin color. Science tells us that the difference in DNA between races isn't much. DNA doesn't cause one race to be more violent than others. But it's like we talked about earlier, it's more an issue of culture than it is about race.

Poverty certainly correlates with crime. The statistics are evident. But that can't be the entire cause. It's more of an enabler maybe. Looking at violent crime, what about Appalachia? The area is predominantly White, poverty stricken, but the violent crime rates there aren't much different from the national average.
.

I addressed location, and said it's an important factor to look at...

So when people talk about "certain cultures," should they be talking about the culture of race, or the culture of poverty and location (location plays a huge role, btw)? I think that fair question to be asked, and it's unfortunate that more people, in our race obsessed culture, don't offer this up more. Now sure, there is a racial component to crimes, but IMO, it's usually confined to the overall system of enforcement, and ingrained biases of the public, not the ethnicity of the offender.

And since you brought up Appalachia. I took it upon myself to do some research. Enterprise, AL is my hometown. It's population is approximately 26,000 people (2010). Wheeling, WV a town in Appalachia, has a population of approximately 31,000. Enterprise has a black population of about 20%, while Wheeling has a population of 5%. If I'm going believe the narrative spoon fed to me in this thread, then it would be a no-brainer, that Enterprise would be have the significantly higher crime, right? I mean there's a 15% difference in the black population, and we ALL know how much blacks LOVE their gangster/ghetto culture, right?

Here's the breakdown:
Crime in Enterprise, Alabama (AL): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map

Crime in Wheeling, West Virginia (WV): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers, crime map


BTW, the city neighbouring Enterprise, Daleville, has a higher black population (25%), is poorer, and an even lower crime rate than Enterprise


So what's the story here Jamil?

 

[OneBadV8]

So what's the story here Jamil?

What I got from his post was that it was the location and the poverty. And he was using Appalachia as an example where there is poverty, but less crime. I think it's safe to say that the trend seems to be from poverty in large cities. And I think your research tells this same story Kut.

But again, I'm not Jamil so I don't know what story he was trying to tell with the information provided.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What I got from his post was that it was the location and the poverty. And he was using Appalachia as an example where there is poverty, but less crime. I think it's safe to say that the trend seems to be from poverty in large cities. And I think your research tells this same story Kut.

But again, I'm not Jamil so I don't know what story he was trying to tell with the information provided.

he did, initially, but he made reference to the poverty in white Appalachia, and how their crime rates were near the national average. I took that to man that in places where there's significantly higher blacks and of similar economic status, the rates would be higher. The examples I provided put that into question.

 

[indiucky]

BTW, the city neighbouring Enterprise, Daleville, has a higher black population (25%), is poorer, and an even lower crime rate than Enterprise


So what's the story here Jamil?

I am curious whether single parent households play a factor or what role religion or church attendance may play in the communities compared...Now to my Atheist/Agnostic brother's...I am not saying church or religion is needed for there to be a moral compass....However I can see how, if one believes in an eternal life, that it may make one more apt to try to walk on the less criminal side...

With that said I believe the more important factor that may possibly play into this has nothing to do with race and more to do with a two parent household...I know if dad was gone for just a little while I tended to believe I could get away with more and I certainly took advantage of my mother's more lackadaisical attitude....

IMHO...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Seems like you two are talking past each other. You say "black", he says "ghetto". I get the feeling something is getting lost in translation.

Is there a "black culture" beyond the gangster culture glamorized by our entertainment industries? Does any culture actually cover so many people?

Is there a white culture? I don't see one. My wife's family has a very different culture than we do. We are all white and live about 15 miles apart all in rural areas. What we do not have in common is my wife and I have both worked hard to get good careers, while they all sit around the poverty line with no prospects of ever moving beyond that.

KLM, I mean seriously, who are we kidding? Whether it's referred to as ghetto or gangster, it's the commonly held belief that those are synonymous (in most instances), again most instances, with black culture. It, IMO, is simply a PC way of avoiding having to say black. Truth be told, if "inner city" didn't also have that trait, it would be most correct to say "inner city culture." With the notion being that people packed on top of each other and who live in poverty, are more prone to commit crimes.