Video: Man Detained by Police for Legal OC at Valparaiso Rally 9/2/2009

[Joe Williams]

yes i know,i offered to truck it or conceal it because again i could tell the officer was already aggravated and i did not want to make the situation worse.Fact is these days an officer can find any charge to book you on if its legal or not.You will sit in jail and the judge will decide.

Had i got argumentative there is a whole host of things they may have been able to arrest me for.Disorderly conduct,resisting,hindering an investigation..stuff like that.If people dont think there are laws out there they can use to make your life hell i suggest people research them.

Don't OC if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself, and your rights.

That officer is scum. Verminous filth abusing his badge and the law, a traitor to the Constitution. Who gives a rat's behind how irritated he is? So what if he arrests you? He makes an illegal arrest, you get to sue him, his chief, his mayor, his town council. You get a few bucks, and make political progress towards restoring our rights. You cover up and cower down, you make it harder for the next guy.

 

[SavageEagle]

Phone phreaking and the whole phrack and 2600 scene was really interesting. Especially as it lead into start of the online BBS's. (anyone want to trade something for a 2400baud Hayes full-length 8bit ISA card ...STILL in the box with programming manuals?? anyone? anyone?)
IIRC it was around 1994 that GTE in Elkhart County began moving off analog to digital switches. Rendered all the colors of boxes useless.

For anyone that didn't know how easy that was to hack phone systems, read up on a guy named Captain Crunch. He was famous for being able to just toot tones off a plastic whistle from a box of Captain Crunch cereal.
He could not only make all free calls, but would run parallel trunks across the country (simultaneously running the call through 2 different routed circuit paths) which created a strange echo in the line.
He spent time in jail for that.
Geez. For some reason, that just now jogged my memory to Captain Midnight, the satellite/cable TV hacker that broadcast his own message after commandeering HBO (iirc).
Back when people didn't hack for money and espionage. Much simpler times.

Damn the memories. Shame I can't rep you again!

Don't OC if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself, and your rights.

That officer is scum. Verminous filth abusing his badge and the law, a traitor to the Constitution. Who gives a rat's behind how irritated he is? So what if he arrests you? He makes an illegal arrest, you get to sue him, his chief, his mayor, his town council. You get a few bucks, and make political progress towards restoring our rights. You cover up and cower down, you make it harder for the next guy.

Man, I hate to say it, but I agree. You just said what a lot of us feel. I could care less about the money part except to make up for my financial loses in the mess, but to make political progess with a suit like that would be wonderful. I also sorta agree that you shouldn't OC if you aren't willing to defend doing so. I know I'll catch flak for that and I don't care. The sad part is that some people would outlaw it outright and have never tried it.

 

[Ness2k]

That looks like Officer Simpson in your video, but I cannot see him very well.

Email the chief (Michael Brickner - mbrickner@valpopd.com) and ask him if it's common practice for Valparaiso PD to detain an individual for doing nothing more than open carrying a weapon. Tell him you were physically detained by one of his officers.

I've OC'd nearly everywhere in Valpo that has had some form of police presence (including into the station, where I've met Officer Simpson before), and never, ever, had a problem. I've always praised this city for having nearly 30,000 people and having no active disregard to our choice of carry. I am wrong, and will not continue to tell people this.

 

[jedi]

<<DISCLAIMER: Stopped reading after page 2>>
<<Jediagh puts on his flame resistance suit on and opens the door to his underground shelter>>

My first reaction to video 2 after seeing video 1 was anger for how the LEO acted. But I've had a day to think about this without reading/listening to all the rest of the 'bad cop' stuff most of you have written. Lets put ourselves in the shoes of that cop.

[COP's MIND SET]
This is a lot of people in the quad. Perhaps we should have additional units? Everything/body appear to be OK but all it takes it one small action to make this go south quickly. I sure hope not & then everyone just packs up and go home quietly.

<<MAN WITH GUN WALKING BY>>
[COP's MIND SET]
Why is this guy all alone? A gun! A videocam? What is he up to? Let me find out. But there is a gun in this picture. Need to grab his free hand since his other hand has the videocam at least this way he can't pull fast one.

....

Now what the cops said means either a) they are ignorant of the laws (need a permit for the AR, privileged etc.., b) this is something new to them (common joe wanting walk with a gun on his hip and NOT trying to kill him or someone else).

The first is easy to solve WE need to EDUCATE the chief and his staff and the city and the people. So stop talking about this issue open a new THREAD for...
1) Meeting with the chief on the topic of open carry
2) Meeting with the city on the topic of open carry
3) Info booths around the town that are manned by us to inform the general population.

Ok it's actually 3 new threads with a coordinator for each one, times, dates, what the message will be, etc..
If you think that is too much the you are nothing more than talk and unwilling to stand up for your rights. (The you is a general you not picking on anyone).

The second (cops not seeing this everyday) is going to require more time. Thinks months and years. It requires that MORE and MORE people OC. Which in turns requires that more common joes are taught about guns, buy guns, get permits, etc.. In essence a change to our culture and by typing away on this forum that is NOT occurring is it? So begin to organize and teach what has always been ours but most have forgotten.

 

[Phil502]

I don't know the cop and I usually conceal carry under my shirt but with the crowd and the yelling he might have been on edge and a bit paranoid. I am not saying the cop was right but......

 

[Ness2k]

I don't know the cop and I usually conceal carry under my shirt but with the crowd and the yelling he might have been on edge and a bit paranoid. I am not saying the cop was right but......

Of course, the OC vs CC debater and cop sympathizer...

I am going to show up to every rally, protest, and march in Valparaiso and personally speak to every police officer that attends the events to let them know that OC is legal and to leave non-violent OC'ers alone. I will print out the FAQ from the ISP website and hand it to them, explaining how the Indiana Code (fails to) address(es) the issue of how an individual may carry a weapon, and that merely carrying a weapon is in no way reasonably inviting detainment and seizure of property.

This might go over well

 

[Ness2k]

The second (cops not seeing this everyday) is going to require more time. Thinks months and years. It requires that MORE and MORE people OC. Which in turns requires that more common joes are taught about guns, buy guns, get permits, etc.. In essence a change to our culture and by typing away on this forum that is NOT occurring is it? So begin to organize and teach what has always been ours but most have forgotten.

A man walked up to me here in the Valpo walmart to ask me if I'm a cop, and when I told him I'm not he asked me why I'm OC'ing. He said he has a permit, but when he went through the Valpo PD to apply for it, they gave him a speech on how he needs to conceal his weapon.

Of course, I pointed him here, but the fact is the local police departments are doing their fair share of misinforming the citizens.

 

[megiddo]

That looks like Officer Simpson in your video, but I cannot see him very well.

Email the chief (Michael Brickner - mbrickner@valpopd.com) and ask him if it's common practice for Valparaiso PD to detain an individual for doing nothing more than open carrying a weapon. Tell him you were physically detained by one of his officers.

I've OC'd nearly everywhere in Valpo that has had some form of police presence (including into the station, where I've met Officer Simpson before), and never, ever, had a problem. I've always praised this city for having nearly 30,000 people and having no active disregard to our choice of carry. I am wrong, and will not continue to tell people this.

I am in the process of calling several lawyers to look into it.If anyone knows a good one let me know.Not saying i am going to pursue anything yet,just looking into it.I am not going to make any contact with the police dept. until i have consulted a lawyer.

I am however very interested in helping organize an OC walk on downtown valpo.

 

[megiddo]

A man walked up to me here in the Valpo walmart to ask me if I'm a cop, and when I told him I'm not he asked me why I'm OC'ing. He said he has a permit, but when he went through the Valpo PD to apply for it, they gave him a speech on how he needs to conceal his weapon.

Of course, I pointed him here, but the fact is the local police departments are doing their fair share of misinforming the citizens.

I had the same thing happen to me at bass pro shops.He asked me if i was a cop and i told him no.He then asked me why i was carrying a gun and i told him we live in an open carry state.He said that he was also told he needed to conceal.I told him that was wrong and in our great state of Indiana you may carry as you wish.

 

[Robert Richardson]

Don't OC if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself, and your rights.

That officer is scum. Verminous filth abusing his badge and the law, a traitor to the Constitution. Who gives a rat's behind how irritated he is? So what if he arrests you? He makes an illegal arrest, you get to sue him, his chief, his mayor, his town council. You get a few bucks, and make political progress towards restoring our rights. You cover up and cower down, you make it harder for the next guy.

I agree,just think if you would have gotten arrested,you could have gotten on the TV News, and people could have learned more about their rights. If you are going to stand up for a cause,Stand Up!Don't back down.

 

[megiddo]

Also let me clear up another thing.If an officer wants to walk up to me and ask me if i have a permit in the situation we were with the crowd and all i have no problem with that...in fact i even understand.My problem was with being treated as a criminal and having my armed grabbed.It was uncalled for.There was no sign to this officer that i was violent or had intent to resist him.All he had to do was ask me.

These police need to realize that an armed citizen is an asset to them.There has been several situations in our country where an armed citizen helped an officer.

Like the marine a few years ago that shot and killed a man after he shot or ran over an officer..not sure which one but you get the point.

Then with that major shoot out in LA with those 2 bank robbers.Had a citizen that lived nearby owned and AK or AR15 he could have come out and tried to even the odds for the officers.I know i would have.

Problem is our officers are being militarized and we are being conditioned to accept it.

 

[megiddo]

Don't OC if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself, and your rights.

That officer is scum. Verminous filth abusing his badge and the law, a traitor to the Constitution. Who gives a rat's behind how irritated he is? So what if he arrests you? He makes an illegal arrest, you get to sue him, his chief, his mayor, his town council. You get a few bucks, and make political progress towards restoring our rights. You cover up and cower down, you make it harder for the next guy.

I dont know if i would go as far as to call the man scum.Maybe the officers in this county need a crash course on how to handle open carry situations.

 

[henktermaat]

WOW. That cop is trying to tell him not to do it because... "he might SCARE people"?

Thank you sir for your recommendation to conceal, but I choose not too.

My only sugegstion would be that the guy should have just shut up... and started saying "Am I free to go" early on but I would have probably done no better.

 

[SavageEagle]

A man walked up to me here in the Valpo walmart to ask me if I'm a cop, and when I told him I'm not he asked me why I'm OC'ing. He said he has a permit, but when he went through the Valpo PD to apply for it, they gave him a speech on how he needs to conceal his weapon.

Of course, I pointed him here, but the fact is the local police departments are doing their fair share of misinforming the citizens.

I was asked yesterday at the OC Walk meeting by an ISP officer if I was a police officer since I was OCing. I said no, and he asked to see my LTCH. The other two with me also showed him theirs.

I have no problem doing this. But if he asks to have my firearm in the middle or even near a crowd, I might be inclined to tell him no because not many officers are familiar with the Jericho Pistols and I don't feel it would be safe with him fumbling around with my pistol.

If the officer would get hostile because of that then he has bigger issues than crowd control...

 

[henktermaat]

Glad to see the OP is on here now, much0 reps to you sir

 

[Ness2k]

Chief Brickner,

A video from the 2 SEP 09 protest has come to my attention concerning the carry of firearms in Valparaiso. I have recently moved here in the past six months and do not wish to have any misunderstandings during my stay.

YouTube - OBAMACARE RALLY AND COUNTER PROTEST/DETAINED BY POLICE FOR LEGAL OPEN CARRY!-PART2

If you would, please view this video and answer a few questions for me.

Is it reasonable to be stopped by an officer for merely possessing a weapon? Not only was this man told that he "just wanted to see his permit", he was led by the hand (as seen in the video), and his firearm was seized. He was also told open carrying is not "safe". Is this Valparaiso PD SOP?

The female officer mentioned that a permit was needed to carry a rifle. This is misinformation, and should I choose to sling and carry any type of long gun, I do not wish to be a victim of an unreasonable accusation based on the mis-education of someone trusted to uphold the law.

Please do not think I am being sarcastic, but I am truthfully appalled at the way this situation was handled. Please inform your officers that open carry of a handgun is legal (with LTCH), and is not grounds for a Terry stop, and that carry of a long gun is legal without permit, and also not grounds for interrogation. The ISP has posted a bulletin on their website explaining the legality of open carry.

Chief Brickner, I have put many years of my life in the self defense of this great country through Military service, been deployed to foreign theaters, and still sometimes feel uncomfortable exercising my rights back on my own home soil, due to the "Bill of Privileges" mindset some hold.

Thank you for your time,
xxxxx

I'm awaiting a reply. I hope I didn't come off in a manner that will not be taken seriously.

 

[SavageEagle]

I'm awaiting a reply. I hope I didn't come off in a manner that will not be taken seriously.

Well said! I hope you get a reply.

 

[Phil502]

Of course, the OC vs CC debater and cop sympathizer...

I am going to show up to every rally, protest, and march in Valparaiso and personally speak to every police officer that attends the events to let them know that OC is legal and to leave non-violent OC'ers alone. I will print out the FAQ from the ISP website and hand it to them, explaining how the Indiana Code (fails to) address(es) the issue of how an individual may carry a weapon, and that merely carrying a weapon is in no way reasonably inviting detainment and seizure of property.

This might go over well

No not at all, you carry how you want, I don't have an opinion, I just have what I feel most comfortable with. I don't agree with the cop hassling our friends but just saying maybe this is why he did it.

 

[mrjarrell]

I'm awaiting a reply. I hope I didn't come off in a manner that will not be taken seriously.

Sounded reasonable to me.

 

[megiddo]

I'm awaiting a reply. I hope I didn't come off in a manner that will not be taken seriously.

Very well said sir.Thank you for sending that.Im not going to make any contact with the VPD until i have consulted a GOOD lawyer.I think it would be a good idea for me not to for legal reasons just in case this goes somewhere.

Plus i have to live and drive around here everyday.I dont want any officers with a chip on their shoulder keeping an eye out for me.