Video: Man Detained by Police for Legal OC at Valparaiso Rally 9/2/2009

[Kirk Freeman]

I am telling you all that it is not well known law to LEOs if they can legally detain someone to check for a license to carry (or if the person is an off-duty LEO, or a member of the national guard on-duty, etc.). Hell, some LEOs still think it is a license to carry a _concealed_ weapon. I have to them correct them on that and show them mine!

Therein lies the problem, we don't have a ruling as with motor vehicles (the Delaware decision that I cited). As you know, Indy317, in criminal law people are stopped (and then prosecuted) for allegedly a lot more than just carrying a pistol(s) while walking out of a coffee shop in Broad Ripple.

This would most likely come before a state appellate court in a civil suit.

 

[SavageEagle]

Therein lies the problem, we don't have a ruling as with motor vehicles (the Delaware decision that I cited). As you know, Indy317, in criminal law people are stopped (and then prosecuted) for allegedly a lot more than just carrying a pistol(s) while walking out of a coffee shop in Broad Ripple.

This would most likely come before a state appellate court in a civil suit.

I'm sure during your little experiance in BR you MUST have done SOMETHING wrong other than walk in and order coffee... J/K I just had to say something there. Carry on.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I'm sure during your little experiance in BR you MUST have done SOMETHING wrong other than walk in and order coffee...

Well, I was wearing a University of Texas t-shirt.

 

[aikidoka]

Hum... perhaps the same type of talk that the Cheif of Police of Hammond was/is getting from anotehr INGO member needs to be done to the Chief over at Valpo?

Hum.. perhaps an ENTIRE Lake county police invite needs to be done so that we have all the cheifs in one setting and to see what their knowelegde of the laws are?

Hum....

I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not but I've given up on a legal option with regard to my incident in Hammond. The one lawyer I called never returned my call. I've been trying to get a hold of a detective commander in Highland who has verified OC is allowed because I want to find out if, when and who he talked to in Hammond. No luck there. Being laid off, I dont have money to get a lawyer's attention, so I guess I have to wait until I'm actually arrested or tazed. At least I have a digital voice recorder now.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

HOWEVER, a man who was legally Open Carrying his firearm was detained by Valparaiso Police for almost 30 minutes. He was not arrested but the officers told him that carrying was "a privilege, not a right."

Here is what he wrote in his video comments:

I'm not a lawyer, but being detained for almost a half hr just to check a LTCH, is unlawful isn't it? And quite possibly grounds for a lawsuit. I believe that stops must be completed in a reasonable and appropriate amount of time. An officer cannot just detain you for how ever long he/she feels like it. A consensual stop is different, but the officer states he detained him, and the other officer when asked if he was free to go said that it was the other officer detaining him so could he hold on.

Any LEOs here mind chiming in on how long a average ltch check takes?

And just on the amusing side, the officer said he's walking around with an exposed weapon, and told him he should use common sense and conceal when he was in a crowd, while wait for it.... Open carrying himself.

First of all i was not boot licking the officers,i was being respectful of my local LEOs in a situation involving numbers of people they did not expect.We all know what happens when you become rowdy with LEOs these days.DONT TAZE ME BRO!!.
I was not happy with the immediate treatment like a criminal and the officer grabbing my arm.Since when does every person open carrying a firearm have to be stopped to have their papers checked?,other than that as shown in the videos the officers were quite friendly.I offered to conceal to help sooth the situation.I did no go there to have a lawsuit or cause a problem.I open carry all the time.Its second nature to me,like remembering my wallet in the morning.
God bless.

yes i know,i offered to truck it or conceal it because again i could tell the officer was already aggravated and i did not want to make the situation worse.Fact is these days an officer can find any charge to book you on if its legal or not.You will sit in jail and the judge will decide.

Had i got argumentative there is a whole host of things they may have been able to arrest me for.Disorderly conduct,resisting,hindering an investigation..stuff like that.If people dont think there are laws out there they can use to make your life hell i suggest people research them.

I'm not going to bust your chops or say you bootlicked the officers. In MY OPINION, you could of handled it differently(better?). Without placing yourself in danger of a lawful arrest. But having said that, I would like to think I would of, but I have never been placed in the situation that you have, so I don't know how I would react.

If he put his hands on you without cause, you my friend have a complaint to file.

Not a lawyer but in my opinion thats iffy, the officer did not appear to use excessive force (perhaps because of the camera, but thats a different story) and simply placed his hand on his arm to guide him. He'd have a better chance on the reason I listed above.

Don't OC if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself, and your rights.

Joe its his right to carry openly or concealed, whether he stands up for himself and his rights to the degree YOU think he should or not. Just like its your right to voice your opinions on his actions, and the LEOs involved. How would you take it if I said, Don't criticize him unless you have been in the same situation he has, or LEOs unless you are one? Perhaps some advice on how to better handle the situation if it happens again, rather than just browbeating him. But that's just my

 

[Denny347]

Any LEOs here mind chiming in on how long a average ltch check takes?

About 3 minutes over the radio. About 20 seconds if you are just looking over the actual permit.

 

[Phil502]

Did he run the pistol to see if it's stolen?
I don't understand why thats necessary do we assume everything a policeman see's is stolen?

 

[AFA1CY]

Did he run the pistol to see if it's stolen?
I don't understand why thats necessary do we assume everything a policeman see's is stolen?

Maybe they should start stopping people to check their iPods and iPhones. All those who carry those items might have stolen them.

 

[SavageEagle]

Maybe they should start stopping people to check their iPods and iPhones. All those who carry those items might have stolen them.

Shhhh! They'll legislate a requirement to have a License To Carry an Ipod/Iphone!!!!!

 

[Ness2k]

I haven't had a reply back, although I understand there was a holiday weekend. I'll update this thread if I do receive a reply back, or someone can acquire Officer Simpson's email address. I'd like to write him a letter too.

 

[patience0830]

exactly

How about this:
"Officer, there's a man carrying a gun here!"
"Is he threatening anyone, or otherwise breaking the law?"
"He's carrying a gun!"
"Sir, if he has a license, then unless he's pointing it at people or threatening them, it's perfectly legal to have a gun."
"Um . . . ah! maybe he doesn't have a license."
"Sir, in Indiana about one adult in ten has a license to carry handgun."
"But, ah . . . ."
"Sir, I can have an officer swing by to ask him to present his license, but unless he commits a crime, that's all I can do. If he's on your property, you can ask him to leave and if he doesn't, that's trespass and he can be charged with that. Will there be anything else?"
"Uh . . . no, I don't think so."
"Thank you very much for calling."

that is the conversation as it SHOULD go. don't think it happens that way often.
I don't open carry for the simple reason that in an unfortunate situation, like a robbery for instance, I don't want to be singled out as the first law abiding citizen to be shot. maybe its just me. I like the idea of being able to, but it seems to me not to be the wisest choice.

 

[dburkhead]

that is the conversation as it SHOULD go. don't think it happens that way often.
I don't open carry for the simple reason that in an unfortunate situation, like a robbery for instance, I don't want to be singled out as the first law abiding citizen to be shot. maybe its just me. I like the idea of being able to, but it seems to me not to be the wisest choice.

If you wish to discuss the merits of OC vs. CC, there are other threads in which to do so. Suffice to say that your concerns are answered there.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

About 3 minutes over the radio. About 20 seconds if you are just looking over the actual permit.

Thanks for answering, that's a bit quicker than I figured. I would of guessed 5 minutes or a bit longer for calling it in.

 

[Joe Williams]

Thanks for answering, that's a bit quicker than I figured. I would of guessed 5 minutes or a bit longer for calling it in.

Got pulled over Friday night for a headlight out. Cop got my license and registration, then sent me on my way. Whole stop took less than 5 minutes. Of course, he was probably looking for drunks more than he was headlights out, but still glad he pulled me over, since with my foglights it wasn't all that obvious my light was out.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Got pulled over Friday night for a headlight out. Cop got my license and registration, then sent me on my way. Whole stop took less than 5 minutes. Of course, he was probably looking for drunks more than he was headlights out, but still glad he pulled me over, since with my foglights it wasn't all that obvious my light was out.

I've had a couple of quicker stops, but most of mine have been in probably the 5-10 minute range. I think the quickest was about 1 minute, seriously. The cop was I'm sure just checking for drunks. It was actually pretty amusing, I had just left work, and I see my co-worker who left a minute or 2 before me pulled over, I pass them and about 30 seconds later I see lights in my mirror. I pull over and the officer walks up and I hand him my drivers license, he asks where I'm coming from and I tell him work, he asks where I work and I tell him the same place the guy he just had pulled over works. He then asked if I had been drinking. I told him no. Another car drove past then, and he dropped my license in my lap, told me to drive safe, fix the problem (neon license plate holder) and ran back to his car to take off after them.

He did have a valid reason to pull me over though, so it was a legitimate stop. I'm not saying anything bad about the officer, just that it was amusing(and fast).

 

[cce1302]

So has anybody started planning a "liberty walk" or anything like that in Valpo? I'd like to attend, if you're going to.