Vegas Shooting

[rockhopper46038]

Eric Holder is probably grinning from ear to ear right now...

Why?

I would assume because he will see this as evidence that he was right. That the greatest terrorist thread facing the country is right wingers, gun owners, Gadsden flyers, veterans, Constitution types... whatever all was on the famous DHS warning list that was issued several years ago. Since then all of the spree shooters have been nut jobs with ties to the left in some way or another.

Yes; specifically because now the "Domestic Terrorist Task Force" he decided to reconstitute will almost certainly be aimed primarily (if not exclusively) at those groups Expat detailed.

 

[churchmouse]

Well, I for one don't mind too much if you or other cops are being a "dick" as long as you are following the laws you are supposed to enforce. But politeness is always appreciated...

On topic, it really sucks that those police officers were ambushed. The biggest problem is these nutcases always have the element of surprise going for them. I hope they give the citizen an honorable mention if he died trying to stop them. Doesn't sound like the story is clear yet. The odds have to be somewhat slim to have someone carrying at the right place, at the right time, with the right training in order to make a difference.

Key word....."TRAINING"
A gun is a tool that has to be learned and used properly.
It is not a talisman. It is a tool like any other.

 

[Denny347]

Lots of people are pricks in the world. We have our share. Sorry.

 

[wally05]

Lots of people are pricks in the world. We have our share. Sorry.

+1

 

[shootamc58]

Just got a news alert on my iphone. Apparently these pieces of garbage had some sort of Indiana connection. I went to the website, but no story yet. I'll be interested to see what it is all about.

 

[bingley]

Key word....."TRAINING"

Responding to a mass shooting is just really hard if you're among the first few targets. This is quite different from a mugging, where the mugger is keeping you alive to get something from you. You get more time with that. It seems to me like for you to defend yourself effectively, you need to survive the first ten seconds of the shooting by luck, then identify the shooter or shooters. Then decide what to do from there. I don't know what sort of training would get you luck. Situational awareness may get you more time, but that fails, too.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The reason these killers had a manifesto... Is because I keep getting told about killer's manifestos.

 

[churchmouse]

Responding to a mass shooting is just really hard if you're among the first few targets. This is quite different from a mugging, where the mugger is keeping you alive to get something from you. You get more time with that. It seems to me like for you to defend yourself effectively, you need to survive the first ten seconds of the shooting by luck, then identify the shooter or shooters. Then decide what to do from there. I don't know what sort of training would get you luck. Situational awareness may get you more time, but that fails, too.

There is no all knowing answer to this. No one can be SA 100% of the time. Even LEO.
My thoughts were more along the lines of when/if to remove the sidearm and then knowing exactly how to use it. That comes from training and repetitive actions. 2nd nature muscle memory. Being able to pull the sidearm automatically with out looking/thinking or getting flustered. Keeping eye contact and bringing the sidearm to bear. Once in that condition decisions should already be formulated or close.
Training. Simple as that but even that ain't simple when facing the "Real Deal"

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

A minor update. The armed(?) citizen killed at the Walmart was a woman. Her name has not yet been released.

Source: Possible 'manifesto' found in Las Vegas shootings - CNN.com

It also appears now that LEO responded very quickly and engaged the scumbags in the Walmart before the two (2) turds flushed themselves.

Reflecting on this I am beginning to wonder just how they targeted the officers at the Cici's in the first place. If those officers regularly ate there then it could have been planned. Otherwise it was probably a hastily conceived attack plan that fortunately fizzled quickly.

I would still like to hear more about the woman who was shat at the Walmart. Was she armed? Did she resist in any way? If so did she get off any shots that found their mark? She just seems to be blurred over in the story.

Regards,

Doug

 

[atvdave]

Just got a news alert on my iphone. Apparently these pieces of garbage had some sort of Indiana connection. I went to the website, but no story yet. I'll be interested to see what it is all about.

just heard that on the radio. They said the two were from Lafayette.

 

[CHCRandy]

Watch out for them AR-1's........Two Cops, Three Others Killed in Las Vegas Shooting Spree - NBC News

 

[sparkyfender]

Yep.

MSNBC is stressing the white, anti government, anti Obama, Cliven Bundy, Gadsden flag aspects. And "AR-1s."


They are reporting the slain citizen as a male, not female, and no mention they engaged the killers with a CCW.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Yep.

MSNBC is stressing the white, anti government, anti Obama, Cliven Bundy, Gadsden flag aspects. And "AR-1s."

that's what MSDNC is paid to do...

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I have to correct my previous post - maybe?

According to the NY Post the Walmart customer was Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31. So maybe this was the citizen that was maybe armed.

Vegas cop-killers were ?anti-government white supremacists? | New York Post

I doubt "Joseph Robert" was a woman as was reported by CNN.

I understand the fog of war but I really DO wish the media wouldn't report stuff that they apparently don't know.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Birds Away]

To All,

I have to correct my previous post - maybe?

According to the NY Post the Walmart customer was Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31. So maybe this was the citizen that was maybe armed.

Vegas cop-killers were ?anti-government white supremacists? | New York Post

I doubt "Joseph Robert" was a woman as was reported by CNN.

I understand the fog of war but I really DO wish the media wouldn't report stuff that they apparently don't know.

Regards,

Doug

MSNBC would then be silent.

 

[Wild Deuce]

*

 

[looney2ns]

One wonders if they had been watching Fox's show the Following. They depicted some attacks similar to this in the show numerous times.

 

[Trigger Time]

Confirmed at the press conference minutes ago that the armed non-LEO tried to engage the male suspect but was not aware of the female companion. She shot him in the side (ribs) and he collapsed at that point. No word on whether he discharged his weapon or simply issued a verbal challenge prior to being shot.

This being unaware of a second shooter is something that is remedied with proper training and mindset. I'm not trying to sully the fallen inocent citizen, I'm just hoping from this circumstance comes some good for others of us that choose to not be a victim of dirtbags.
my thoughts are with all of the families, friends, ci-workers of the slain victims. If there is some sort of judgement after death I hope the two cowards face it.
sad to hear they're from Lafayette Indiana.

 

[cbhausen]

This being unaware of a second shooter is something that is remedied with proper training and mindset. I'm not trying to sully the fallen inocent citizen, I'm just hoping from this circumstance comes some good for others of us that choose to not be a victim of dirtbags.
my thoughts are with all of the families, friends, ci-workers of the slain victims. If there is some sort of judgement after death I hope the two cowards face it.
sad to hear they're from Lafayette Indiana.

The shooters said they were going underground for awhile. They were right. It's called hell.

 

[ModernGunner]

Oh great, 'Nazi white-supremacist' types from Lafayette, IN.

Expect even more rabid gun control rhetoric, coming swiftly.

This being unaware of a second shooter is something that is remedied with proper training and mindset. I'm not trying to sully the fallen inocent citizen, I'm just hoping from this circumstance comes some good for others of us that choose to not be a victim of dirtbags.

No, Trigger, you're not sullying his memory. The best way to honor his heroic attempt IS to review his actions, and utilize it as a learning tool for others.

I speak frequently to students, and a bit here, that the student needs to be more aware of his surroundings and what's happening, and most frequently, get their gun in their hand earlier in the situation. Almost to a person, everyone fails to access their firearm early enough.

What I see most frequently from new students, even those that are quite experienced with handgunning or carry for a living, is that they have a mindset of "If I pull my gun, I 'have' to use it, so I'm gonna wait until I NEED it", or something similar in mindset. WRONG.

Saw that same type of mindset a lot at the academy.