Uvalde Texas Killing

[DoggyDaddy]

Thats hard to do when one owns a retail business.

Then you go out of business. It's not complicated.

 

[churchmouse]

Doesn't matter. If the gun shop is uneasy about the buyer, it's a no-go. Not a damn thing the buyer can do about it (as it should be).

How many in the class have been in a shop and watched a straw purchase take place. Raise your hands.

 

[Creedmoor]

I agree. But we have no mental hospitals now, or at least not enough.

You asked me how I would fix it.
Thats how I would start, decades ago.
Build them, use empty Kmarts, empty schools, empty office buildings. This country is full of empty buildings.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

How do we look at a person and judge there moral compass?

It's not really about a moral compass. If the buyer gives you an uneasy feeling, that should be enough. If you don't give a , then sell away. If it's found that you are knowingly selling to prohibited persons, then you'll get a visit from the ATF. Helpful hint: Keep your dog, your wife and child away from your shop.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You asked me how I would fix it.
Thats how I would start, decades ago.
Build them, use empty Kmarts, empty schools, empty office buildings. This country is full of empty buildings.

While I agree, then how do you staff them?

 

[maxipum]

Im aware of how it works, so where does that stop?
They dont like your Trump hat?
Dont like the lederhosen you have on?
Dang thats a man in a dress, dont sell him that glock!!
Dont like some of the things a member posts here you dont agree with?
So some here post they wouldnt sell another member with license and pink for things they believe and post.

So what? You want someone compelled to complete a sale? My take is you are projecting what you would do perhaps? None of us are perfect so what you posted above certainly has happened and will inevitably continue to occur at an undetermined rate. If your answer to this issue of human nature is to either ban things or compel people to do things then you just lost me.

 

[Jaybird1980]

How many in the class have been in a shop and watched a straw purchase take place. Raise your hands.

 

[churchmouse]

How do we look at a person and judge there moral compass?

That is easier for some and harder for others.
Having walked many paths in this journey I have a 6th sense for some of this. Certain tells. Body language and refusal to engage in idle chatter just sell me the gun and lets go.
A true Narcissist can hide a lot from you as it is in their nature to mask the intentions they harbor. My son is one of these people. He can divert and misdirect with the best of them. Refuses to admit he has issues and always twists things around to point at others for his short comings. He is about to be 39 years old and is getting no better. After dealing with his idiocy these people are easier to spot for us.
No one is 100% but seriously, if you get a bad feeling about someone for what ever reason step off. I have. Yes they get pissed and the level of Angst they display is also a red flag.

Yes, freedom can be painful but in those freedoms we can and should say no when it is appropriate to do so.

 

[JCSR]

That is easier for some and harder for others.
Having walked many paths in this journey I have a 6th sense for some of this. Certain tells. Body language and refusal to engage in idle chatter just sell me the gun and lets go.
A true Narcissist can hide a lot from you as it is in their nature to mask the intentions they harbor. My son is one of these people. He can divert and misdirect with the best of them. Refuses to admit he has issues and always twists things around to point at others for his short comings. He is about to be 39 years old and is getting no better. After dealing with his idiocy these people are easier to spot for us.
No one is 100% but seriously, if you get a bad feeling about someone for what ever reason step off. I have. Yes they get pissed and the level of Angst they display is also a red flag.

Yes, freedom can be painful but in those freedoms we can and should say no when it is appropriate to do so.

I have a son about that age that is the same way. Nothing is ever his fault. I feel your pain and hope it changes someday.

 

[Somemedic]

A cake for a wedding in which the 2 parties are of the same sex, I dont believe is covered in the Bill of Rights.

A man who owns a business tho should have the right to refuse to serve anyone at anytime. If he's a turd, the community talks to each other about it and refuse patronage to his business and after a time the business withers.

But if a fella goes through the motions, fills out the forms, has the proper ID and then is refused a gun sale that would seem to be the bigger injustice. I'm referring to a gun sale through an FFL where the form gets called in downstate. I dont want to even get into a private sale yet...

The concepts of law fascinate the hell out of me and these 2 examples make the logic wheels turn. What would be the right answer?

 

[churchmouse]

You asked me how I would fix it.
Thats how I would start, decades ago.
Build them, use empty Kmarts, empty schools, empty office buildings. This country is full of empty buildings.

Thats a start.
But with all things Government these are doomed to fail when the wrong people gain control and start diverting funds to appease the people that pay the campaign bills and expect to be taken care of.
I truly believe the red line in Indy is one of those things. The electric car rental as well.
Budget cuts and diversion of funds killed the system we used to have. When the facility's fell into disrepair the costs involved to repair them was astronomical and used to scare the sheeple and they were closed one by one.
If they had remained fully funded this would not be happening at least not at this level. The homeless issue would never have reached the tent city levels we are seeing.

On and On and On and On and On

 

[churchmouse]

I have a son about that age that is the same way. Nothing is ever his fault. I feel your pain and hope it changes someday.

I see no hope. We have had to cut ties with him when he weaponized his daughters against us. There is nothing out of bounds for them. All of his problems remain my fault because I will no longer subsidize his life choices.
I feel your pain as well.

 

[churchmouse]

A cake for a wedding in which the 2 parties are of the same sex, I dont believe is covered in the Bill of Rights.

A man who owns a business tho should have the right to refuse to serve anyone at anytime. If he's a turd, the community talks to each other about it and refuse patronage to his business and after a time the business withers.

But if a fella goes through the motions, fills out the forms, has the proper ID and then is refused a gun sale that would seem to be the bigger injustice. I'm referring to a gun sale through an FFL where the form gets called in downstate. I dont want to even get into a private sale yet...

The concepts of law fascinate the hell out of me and these 2 examples make the logic wheels turn. What would be the right answer?

When you are sure something is wrong regardless of the 4473 passing muster. Thats when you step back. You/I/them are in no way "Obligated" to complete a sale for any good reasons. Up to and including the hat. Stupid as that sounds (and it is) its your goods to sell, or not.

Watched a guy make a sale in an LGS that was obviously a straw buy. If you were there you would have seen it as well. But the store wanted the sale.

 

[Creedmoor]

While I agree, then how do you staff them?

Really?

 

[Creedmoor]

So what? You want someone compelled to complete a sale? My take is you are projecting what you would do perhaps? None of us are perfect so what you posted above certainly has happened and will inevitably continue to occur at an undetermined rate. If your answer to this issue of human nature is to either ban things or compel people to do things then you just lost me.

I'm not projecting anything, i'm mostly asking questions or answering questions that have been asked of me.

 

[Creedmoor]

I agree. But we have no mental hospitals now, or at least not enough.

Not to long ago we didnt have Homeland Security and a United States Space Force,
And a Dollar General every 4 miles

And wall´la, we now have an excess of all.

 

[DragonGunner]

Oh for Pete's sake...
"A locked door won't stop a determined person."
So... don't lock your doors, don't lock your car, leave the keys in the ignition because they could hot-wire it...
ANYTHING done to slow down an attack is worth it.

True but c'mon.....a active shooter compared to a quiet sneaky burglar that doesn't want to be detected or found is way overboard. Slow down a few seconds yes, stop...forget it for Petes sake.

 

[rooster]

so now it’s not the whole dept refusing to cooperate it’s just the police chief, who was sworn into city council last night despite the fact he is MIA from this investigation.


At this point the only way I’m going to believe the timeline and what happened is with video evidence. Too many inconsistencies and changes to what should have been basic facts ie was the door propped open. Day two that was an indisputable fact with video evidence and now it’s indisputable fact that she closed it with video to prove it.

 

[Shadow01]

Yes, gun shops/owners/employees absolutely have that right.

If you start pushing this as a solution, then you have to be willing to put the legal responsibility on the sales staff when they fail to prevent a gun sale that ends in tragedy. I don’t think we want that. Then where does it stop? Car salesman that sells a car to a drunk that kills somebody in a wreck?

 

[Ark]

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

And the feedback loop continues. More media hype for shootings = more people getting the idea to be shooters = more shootings for the media to hype. Outpatient surgery center, classic GFZ, guy was able to kill people apparently in the hunt for some specific physician, then capped himself.