Uvalde Texas Killing

[Cameramonkey]

Sure....but why was it propped to begin with?

Then, when a murderous thug is in the area shouldn't one ensure it is latched after the prop is removed?

Ive seen access control doors that have a bad closer piston that unless you open it ALL the way and it is allowed to return home FULL FORCE (no wind, etc) it wont latch. e.g. open it just enough to walk through and a wind slows it down so it just rests on the strike plate.

Thats why EVERYONE must be vigilant in secure facilities and report when doors dont RELIABLY close all the way.

 

[jamil]

Sure....but why was it propped to begin with?

Then, when a murderous thug is in the area shouldn't one ensure it is latched after the prop is removed?

I don't know. I think teachers should be a bit more security minded, but they're not. They come to school to teach day in, day out, year in, year out. They're not thinking about security. And I don't really blame them for this shooting. I blame the shooter. If we're going to talk about what could have been done, I think what could have been done is to make doors that don't fail to latch. And, have and enforce policies about being more secure-minded with doors.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I don't know. I think teachers should be a bit more security minded, but they're not. They come to school to teach day in, day out, year in, year out. They're not thinking about security. And I don't really blame them for this shooting. I blame the shooter. If we're going to talk about what could have been done, I think what could have been done is to make doors that don't fail to latch. And, have and enforce policies about being more secure-minded with doors.

How do they not have a security system that as a glance won't tell them which doors are not closed?

 

[BigRed]

I think I am going to take a little break from this thread.

 

[jamil]

How do they not have a security system that as a glance won't tell them which doors are not closed?

I dunno. It's a podunk town. Podunk, low budget school? I really don't know. And I'll say this. I'm not usually a fan of big government solutions, but I'd be fine with federal dollars funding better doors for schools, like the electromagnetic door locks. But Joe wants his pound of flesh against gun owners.

 

[Ark]

DPS said security footage confirms that door wasn’t propped open.

Pretty big ooops on the initial reports, just blaming the deaths of children on a teacher

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/31/uvalde-teacher-door-closed/

So they have a rock handy for propping the door, indicating this happens a lot. A teacher propped it open. But then she went back inside, and removed the rock. But the door didn't close. According to the lawyer hired by the unnamed teacher. And this is after several days of telling us that the sole way he got in was a door propped open by a teacher. The citation for this is camera footage, which hasn't been released for any of us to see.

Hmmm. Kinda sounds like a little fib cooked up after somebody finally pointed out that this teacher is likely to get dragged out of her house by the families when her name gets found out. That door, and the classroom door, is the hinge point where this random clumsy shooting turned into children being massacred.

 

[jamil]

So they have a rock handy for propping the door, indicating this happens a lot. A teacher propped it open. But then she went back inside, and removed the rock. But the door didn't close. According to the lawyer hired by the unnamed teacher. And this is after several days of telling us that the sole way he got in was a door propped open by a teacher. The citation for this is camera footage, which hasn't been released for any of us to see.

Hmmm. Kinda sounds like a little fib cooked up after somebody finally pointed out that this teacher is likely to get dragged out of her house by the families when her name gets found out. That door, and the classroom door, is the hinge point where this random clumsy shooting turned into children being massacred.

It'll be released eventually. so even if they are fibbing, we'll know at some point.

 

[jamil]

I think I am going to take a little break from this thread.

It's moving pretty fast. You might have many pages to catch up on when you come back.

 

[Cameramonkey]

How do they not have a security system that as a glance won't tell them which doors are not closed?

$$$$$$
That requires an alarm system. While many schools may have a card acccess control system the door position sensors are not considered part of a standard access system. Thats typically handled by burg/alarm.

Some insider info: There are three generally distinct systems. Fire, burg(lary), and access.

Fire: senses heat and smoke and sounds horns and strobes.
Burg: detects door positions and uses motion sensors.
Access: controls door locks.

The first two typically can also call central station to report an alarm condition automatically to dispatch police and/or fire.

There is usually very little overlap between the 3 systems.

 

[Cameramonkey]

So they have a rock handy for propping the door, indicating this happens a lot. A teacher propped it open. But then she went back inside, and removed the rock. But the door didn't close. According to the lawyer hired by the unnamed teacher. And this is after several days of telling us that the sole way he got in was a door propped open by a teacher. The citation for this is camera footage, which hasn't been released for any of us to see.

Hmmm. Kinda sounds like a little fib cooked up after somebody finally pointed out that this teacher is likely to get dragged out of her house by the families when her name gets found out. That door, and the classroom door, is the hinge point where this random clumsy shooting turned into children being massacred.

But is she still liable for not latching the door/making sure its secured after she left? (See post #521).

If she pushes the door open 6", kicks the rock free and lets go as she/he turns to walk away, the closer may not have enough strength to latch the door.

If the intention was to secure the door because they previously bypassed the latch, is failing to make sure it latched after you cleared the obstruction still actionable? Should they have not PULLED it shut to make sure their little override trick was no longer in play? is it any different than carefully holding/slowing the door as it closes so it rests gently on the strike and doesnt trip it, locking the door?

I wonder what kind of negligence is still in play by not guaranteeing it was secured before walking away considering the circumstances?

And for the record I see this action 180* from somebody ignorantly walking through a door and not realizing the closer isnt strong enough to complete the latch cycle. (making the bolt rest on the strike) Ive seen that countless times at my office. People just walk through and keep going. If the door doesnt latch behind them like it should they just dont notice. Only the next person coming inside notices its not latched. I know if it were a casual user just walking through normally, I wouldnt necessarily hold them liable if they didnt notice the door just didnt latch behind them. Thats on building maintenance or security to make sure the doors are audited and in proper working order. And MAYBE just MAYBE somebody who saw that it wasnt latching right all the time and didnt report the failures.

 

[Tombs]

I guess who ever sold them the door locks also sold the prison the cameras for Epstein's unit.

 

[bwframe]

 

[churchmouse]

I dunno. It's a podunk town. Podunk, low budget school? I really don't know. And I'll say this. I'm not usually a fan of big government solutions, but I'd be fine with federal dollars funding better doors for schools, like the electromagnetic door locks. But Joe wants his pound of flesh against gun owners.

And our children are the pawns in his chess game.

 

[thompal]

Shooting was over by the time the first cops got there, kids and teachers in the classroom he was in were already dead or dying.

One group of cops evacuated the school while another dealt with what they thought, reasonably or unreasonably, was an armed, baracaded suspect in the classroom that they, for some unknown reason, didn't have a key to that they should have.

Except multiple students from inside the room were calling 911 for the entire HOUR asking police to come save them. Giving the cops a pass because "the shooting was over" is simply an immoral lie.

And even if they (incorrectly) assumed that the shooting was over, how many students could have been saved if they had gotten medical treatment in that hour? One of the 911 callers said that at least some of the injured students were still alive.

 

[thompal]

I think there are a lot of people that should seriously consider eating a bullet.

I heard that the police chief is under police protection.

 

[thompal]

Everyone in the know, knows why.

People still in denial about the state of our government can't cope with the knowledge.

Here's the "ex" FBI agent encouraging him to do the shooting.

Interesting. There was an "ex" FBI agent communicating with the Buffalo shooter a couple of days before his rampage too. I'm sure it's all just a coincidence.

 

[thompal]

Sure.

Remember the Maddox

Or is it Remember the Maine?

The central state has a long history of deception and "sacrificing others" in order to obtain an objective.

If you're going to make an omelette, you got to break a few eggs.

Or Tonkin Bay.

 

[thompal]

Sure....but why was it propped to begin with?

Then, when a murderous thug is in the area shouldn't one ensure it is latched after the prop is removed?

THIS! Apparent;y the shooter was outside the building for about 12 minutes shooting at people across the street and at the school building before he entered. A teacher saw him and unblocked the door, but didn't make sure it closed. And in those 12 minutes, the school didn't go into lockdown? They had active shooter training just two months before, so they SHOULD have known what to do.

 

[churchmouse]

I heard that the police chief is under police protection.

As he should be.
Or not.
If my child were there dead wounded or not he would not want to be in reach of me or CKW. It would be ugly.

 

[yote hunter]

How hard is it to lock a school down ?
Nobody in or out unless they go Thru the front office and buzzed in.
Add to ( The front office is behind bullet proof glass )