Uvalde Texas Killing

[Cameramonkey]

WOW!!

Agent Albarado procured his barber's shotgun and raced on foot to the school.

Jacob Albarado began clearing all the classrooms in Jayda's wing, armed with the barber's shotgun.

Uvalde hero Border Patrol agent speaks out on 'complete chaos,' rushing in to save students

Border Patrol agent Jacob Albarado rushed into Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, during last week's shooting to save students, he told 'The Ingraham Angle.'

www.foxnews.com

Gee, why isnt this all over ALL the news outlets? Why only conservative commentary shows?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

How do they not have a security system that as a glance won't tell them which doors are not closed?

My local schools have a U bracket that fits into a bracket on the door and the frame or between two adjacent doors. Bright red, can't be missed. It's on all the doors, but left off the ones that are currently being used for entry/exit at the beginning/end of the day. Visitor door has a buzzer and camera.

I dunno. It's a podunk town. Podunk, low budget school? I really don't know. And I'll say this. I'm not usually a fan of big government solutions, but I'd be fine with federal dollars funding better doors for schools, like the electromagnetic door locks. But Joe wants his pound of flesh against gun owners.

See above, low tech and works. Or it works if used properly I should say.

$$$$$$
That requires an alarm system. While many schools may have a card acccess control system the door position sensors are not considered part of a standard access system. Thats typically handled by burg/alarm.

Some insider info: There are three generally distinct systems. Fire, burg(lary), and access.

Fire: senses heat and smoke and sounds horns and strobes.
Burg: detects door positions and uses motion sensors.
Access: controls door locks.

The first two typically can also call central station to report an alarm condition automatically to dispatch police and/or fire.

There is usually very little overlap between the 3 systems.

See above. While can't be checked from a central location unless there are cameras a quick glance shows that they are in place.

My childs school is far from a prison. You enter the main door and wait to get buzzed into the office.

I went to grade school in the 90s - the only difference is the door is locked and you have to get buzzed in.

How's that a problem or reducing freedom?

I went to grade school in the 70s, that's about the only difference in the local schools around me. Well they do have cameras outside now as well. The only difference between your child's school and mine seems to be that you get buzzed into the main door. There is a door into the office in the foyer and a set of locked doors into the rest of the school.

 

[Cameramonkey]

My local schools have a U bracket that fits into a bracket on the door and the frame or between two adjacent doors. Bright red, can't be missed. It's on all the doors, but left off the ones that are currently being used for entry/exit at the beginning/end of the day. Visitor door has a buzzer and camera.

Might want to ask the fire marshal about those being on the doors during occupied hours. I was told that those types of locking bars are not approved for occupied buildings. Only after hours/unoccupied. Heck, we had an egress door that would only open if both crash bars were pushed and they opened together. (the weatherstrip prevented them from opening independently) He said that they MUST open independently.

The concern is during a rush to exit, if the first person in the crush doesnt/cant lift it out of position, the group is dead as the panicked mass surges forward into a door that wont open. If you cant just push an egress bar to leave, its not safe/lawful.

 

[KittySlayer]

Agent Albarado procured his barber's shotgun and raced on foot to the school.

Jacob Albarado began clearing all the classrooms in Jayda's wing, armed with the barber's shotgun.

Brave and resourceful man.

Too bad they could not have put Shotgun Joe at the front of the stack entering the room to confront the shooter. (intentionally did not use purple)

 

[thunderchicken]

Might want to ask the fire marshal about those being on the doors during occupied hours. I was told that those types of locking bars are not approved for occupied buildings. Only after hours/unoccupied. Heck, we had an egress door that would only open if both crash bars were pushed and they opened together. (the weatherstrip prevented them from opening independently) He said that they MUST open independently.

The concern is during a rush to exit, if the first person in the crush doesnt/cant lift it out of position, the group is dead as the panicked mass surges forward into a door that wont open. If you cant just push an egress bar to leave, its not safe/lawful.

Based on the description of these bars, I believe you are correct. We have some similar bars we use to secure doors at our church. As facilities director, I had to deal with an inspection with the fire marshal. We were the only two in the building and he made it abundantly clear they had to be removed by the person opening the building for the day. He said they must remain off until everyone is out and the building is secured.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Might want to ask the fire marshal about those being on the doors during occupied hours. I was told that those types of locking bars are not approved for occupied buildings. Only after hours/unoccupied. Heck, we had an egress door that would only open if both crash bars were pushed and they opened together. (the weatherstrip prevented them from opening independently) He said that they MUST open independently.

The concern is during a rush to exit, if the first person in the crush doesnt/cant lift it out of position, the group is dead as the panicked mass surges forward into a door that wont open. If you cant just push an egress bar to leave, its not safe/lawful.

Based on the description of these bars, I believe you are correct. We have some similar bars we use to secure doors at our church. As facilities director, I had to deal with an inspection with the fire marshal. We were the only two in the building and he made it abundantly clear they had to be removed by the person opening the building for the day. He said they must remain off until everyone is out and the building is secured.

Thanks for the info. And yes they are left on the doors when occupied.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Based on the description of these bars, I believe you are correct. We have some similar bars we use to secure doors at our church. As facilities director, I had to deal with an inspection with the fire marshal. We were the only two in the building and he made it abundantly clear they had to be removed by the person opening the building for the day. He said they must remain off until everyone is out and the building is secured.

Yep. I figured the same. "how hard is it to just lift them off?" Once he explained the penalty for not getting it off in time, I realized the problem. Same with activating something that requires fine motor skills, like unlocking a smart phone, selecting the phone app, and dialing 911. Under duress fine motor goes out the window. LOTS of stories of smart phones "just not working" when the stressed person tried to call. Its fine. They just couldnt unlock it.

And sadly, some companies sell them using that "easy to remove" logic to push them.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thanks for the info. And yes they are left on the doors when occupied.

 

[KG1]

Yep. Nothing alarming here. Seems normal.

New video shows Texas school shooter Salvador Ramos holding bag of dead cats

New video obtained by The New York Post shows mass shooter Salvador Ramos holding a bloody bag of dead cats.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yep. I figured the same. "how hard is it to just lift them off?" Once he explained the penalty for not getting it off in time, I realized the problem. Same with activating something that requires fine motor skills, like unlocking a smart phone, selecting the phone app, and dialing 911. Under duress fine motor goes out the window. LOTS of stories of smart phones "just not working" when the stressed person tried to call. Its fine. They just couldnt unlock it.

And sadly, some companies sell them using that "easy to remove" logic to push them.

Yeah, that's what I figured as well. Although no fine motor skills involved with taking these off, I can see the problem.

 

[rooster]

WOW!!

Agent Albarado procured his barber's shotgun and raced on foot to the school.

Jacob Albarado began clearing all the classrooms in Jayda's wing, armed with the barber's shotgun.

Uvalde hero Border Patrol agent speaks out on 'complete chaos,' rushing in to save students

Border Patrol agent Jacob Albarado rushed into Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, during last week's shooting to save students, he told 'The Ingraham Angle.'

www.foxnews.com

Anti gunners are using this as a reason no one “needs” an AR while conveniently informing that fact that our gun rights are what allowed barber to keep a shotgun.

kinda looked like it had “assault” feature too

 

[jamil]

"I saw it on the internet!"

Well, yeah. It was a peer reviewed article on narcissism that I read on the internet. I mean. I didn't get it from trunews.com so...

 

[KittySlayer]

Yeah, that's what I figured as well. Although no fine motor skills involved with taking these off, I can see the problem.

Except you can't see the problem when it is pitch black, the emergency lights aren't working, you have smoke in your eyes, you are in an unfamiliar building, etc.

 

[thunderchicken]

Thanks for the info. And yes they are left on the doors when occupied.

I bet if you search for the code that specifically addresses this, their policy of using them to secure an occupied building may change.
We had a door to a storage room with an exterior door labeled with an Emergency "Exit" sign. The fire marshal told us we either had to remove the sign or replace the standard door knob and deadbolt (even if unlocked) with a crash bar. I was told crash bars are required for all emergency egress doors in any "commercial building" no knobs or deadbolts etc that requires manipulation other than pushing the bar.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Except you can't see the problem when it is pitch black, the emergency lights aren't working, you have smoke in your eyes, you are in an unfamiliar building, etc.

I was saying I can see the problem with having these. Not that the person who's trying to open the door can see them at the time.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I bet if you search for the code that specifically addresses this, their policy of using them to secure an occupied building may change.
We had a door to a storage room with an exterior door labeled with an Emergency "Exit" sign. The fire marshal told us we either had to remove the sign or replace the standard door knob and deadbolt (even if unlocked) with a crash bar. I was told crash bars are required for all emergency egress doors in any "commercial building" no knobs or deadbolts etc that requires manipulation other than pushing the bar.

I wonder how hard it would be to design a system like these that would pop up/loose when you pushed the bar? And what it would cost to retrofit the doors. Visual confirmation that the doors are secured, and no need to do more than push the crash bar.

 

[areamike]

Reports are saying that the shooter walked in thru an unlocked door unencumbered. First line of defense. FAIL. If you can't even do basic things like securing entrances, when children are in school then you have failed.

The door was left propped open by a Teacher. Coincidence? Probably not, but definitely a factor.

 

[KingLouisIX1250]

There is nothing racial about the Texas murders.

…and there was nothing racial about the death of George Floyd either…

 

[Ingomike]

Even if door to the school was inadvertently left unlocked

The shooter was outside the school for 12 min shooting at cops and citizens I wonder why the classroom door was not locked

I read early on the shooter went into an empty classroom that had an adjoining door that did not get locked and that adjoining room was where the kids were. But they have changed so many stories along the way…

 

[Creedmoor]

My childs school is far from a prison. You enter the main door and wait to get buzzed into the office.

I went to grade school in the 90s - the only difference is the door is locked and you have to get buzzed in.

How's that a problem or reducing freedom?

I was in school during the 60's to the middle 70's. All doors were unlocked during operation hours. We had hobos then, the kookooadoodles were locked in County and State Hospitals.
Some had rifles in the rear truck window and some carried rifles or shotguns on the school bus for the shooting teams, 4H, jrotc and the HS Teams.

Hardening the schools will do nothing to stop whats been happening.
Its nothing more than a band-aid to make one feel more comfortable, it does nothing to slow or change the issues we have with todays laws and the mental health problems walking among us.