Uvalde Texas Killing

[rooster]

As he should be.
Or not.
If my child were there dead wounded or not he would not want to be in reach of me or CKW. It would be ugly.

He’d be wise to ask for wit sec.

 

[Ark]

But is she still liable for not latching the door/making sure its secured after she left? (See post #521).

If she pushes the door open 6", kicks the rock free and lets go as she/he turns to walk away, the closer may not have enough strength to latch the door.

If the intention was to secure the door because they previously bypassed the latch, is failing to make sure it latched after you cleared the obstruction still actionable? Should they have not PULLED it shut to make sure their little override trick was no longer in play? is it any different than carefully holding/slowing the door as it closes so it rests gently on the strike and doesnt trip it, locking the door?

I wonder what kind of negligence is still in play by not guaranteeing it was secured before walking away considering the circumstances?

And for the record I see this action 180* from somebody ignorantly walking through a door and not realizing the closer isnt strong enough to complete the latch cycle. (making the bolt rest on the strike) Ive seen that countless times at my office. People just walk through and keep going. If the door doesnt latch behind them like it should they just dont notice. Only the next person coming inside notices its not latched. I know if it were a casual user just walking through normally, I wouldnt necessarily hold them liable if they didnt notice the door just didnt latch behind them. Thats on building maintenance or security to make sure the doors are audited and in proper working order. And MAYBE just MAYBE somebody who saw that it wasnt latching right all the time and didnt report the failures.

Even in the American court system it seems to me like it would be a high bar to actually prove real negligence justifying real legal consequences. We don't generally put liability on people for failing to control or limit the actions of armed, insane criminals. I don't believe I've ever heard of someone being charged or sued because, for example, they left the car unlocked and some criminal was able to steal it and go run someone else over.

If you make the assumption that the story is true and the footage supports it, I'm not sure how you stretch a teacher's duty of care to cover a door not latching behind you enough though you believed it to be in working order.

 

[jamil]

And our children are the pawns in his chess game.

It's not a chess game. More like a game of Jacks.

 

[jamil]

How hard is it to lock a school down ?
Nobody in or out unless they go Thru the front office and buzzed in.
Add to ( The front office is behind bullet proof glass )

0biden doesn't want to protect schools. Just let it keep happening until America finally supports gun bans.

 

[KLB]

0biden doesn't want to protect schools. Just let it keep happening until America finally supports gun bans.

Talking about it 24x7 helps that goal.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Even in the American court system it seems to me like it would be a high bar to actually prove real negligence justifying real legal consequences. We don't generally put liability on people for failing to control or limit the actions of armed, insane criminals. I don't believe I've ever heard of someone being charged or sued because, for example, they left the car unlocked and some criminal was able to steal it and go run someone else over.

If you make the assumption that the story is true and the footage supports it, I'm not sure how you stretch a teacher's duty of care to cover a door not latching behind you enough though you believed it to be in working order.

It should be a high bar.

The nuance in my question is this specific case where you knew it was propped and attempted to secure it. That’s a different animal than assuming the door is going to latch behind you as you enter. I think there are different standards of care.

A difference of “I’m going to latch this door” vs “im going to enter”. Though if anyone would be liable it would be whoever put the rock there.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Talking about it 24x7 helps that goal.

And if we don’t push back with facts and logic, they’ll bamboozle the ignorant with lies and steamroll over our rights.

 

[indyartisan]

Even if door to the school was inadvertently left unlocked

The shooter was outside the school for 12 min shooting at cops and citizens I wonder why the classroom door was not locked

 

[jamil]

Even if door to the school was inadvertently left unlocked

The shooter was outside the school for 12 min shooting at cops and citizens I wonder why the classroom door was not locked

I was wondering the same thing. If police had trouble getting into the classroom, why didn’t the shooter?

There are so many things that went wrong that if any of them had gonnright, it may have been prevented. Or at least the death toll much less.

 

[KG1]

Even if door to the school was inadvertently left unlocked

The shooter was outside the school for 12 min shooting at cops and citizens I wonder why the classroom door was not locked

Oh it was locked alright. The damn door was locked by the murderous POS AFTER HE entered the classroom! and we know those locks worked because LE couldn't get into the classroom. Pretty sure that's not how it's supposed to happen. The door locked with the killer on the INSIDE. Improper lock down security protocol failed those children once again.

 

[Ark]

It should be a high bar.

The nuance in my question is this specific case where you knew it was propped and attempted to secure it. That’s a different animal than assuming the door is going to latch behind you as you enter. I think there are different standards of care.

A difference of “I’m going to latch this door” vs “im going to enter”. Though if anyone would be liable it would be whoever put the rock there.

I agree, at least in the legal arena. Generally speaking I am a critic of the urge to throw a wide net and punish a whole constellation of people located around the jerkoff who actually pulls the trigger. Almost nobody has an actual, codified duty of care to prevent or inhibit violent lawless action by an armed individual. Even the police, through SCOTUS, have been relieved of an actual legal duty.

Outside the law, though, good luck convincing the families it's not your fault.

 

[Creedmoor]

How hard is it to lock a school down ?
Nobody in or out unless they go Thru the front office and buzzed in.
Add to ( The front office is behind bullet proof glass )

What a great way to educate ones children in Free America.

 

[BE Mike]

I spent some time on a psychology website to consult factors associated with narcissism before posting. But, I agree with you and Sheldon Cooper in that psychology isn't a real science.

"I saw it on the internet!"

 

[firecadet613]

What a great way to educate ones children in Free America.

My childs school is far from a prison. You enter the main door and wait to get buzzed into the office.

I went to grade school in the 90s - the only difference is the door is locked and you have to get buzzed in.

How's that a problem or reducing freedom?

 

[chipbennett]

The final messages from the shooter online happened just before the plane took off.

8 minutes after the plane landed, the shooter entered the school. It's an 8 minute drive from the airport to the school.

What are the odds of things lining up this accurately?

This is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of.

The shooter's timeline is well known. He stole, drove, and crashed a truck, after shooting his grandmother. I'm just hazarding a guess that shooting his grandmother/stealing the truck didn't happen at the airfield.

 

[DragonGunner]

And if we don’t push back with facts and logic, they’ll bamboozle the ignorant with lies and steamroll over our rights.

Facts and logic have long past for the anti-gunners. Those already ignorant won't change course, they will just keep cheering for Biden the great. The majority of the country has gone completely stupid. We are outnumbered. They don't love facts or logic, and those that present it are the enemy now.

 

[chipbennett]

But is she still liable for not latching the door/making sure its secured after she left? (See post #521).

If she pushes the door open 6", kicks the rock free and lets go as she/he turns to walk away, the closer may not have enough strength to latch the door.

If the intention was to secure the door because they previously bypassed the latch, is failing to make sure it latched after you cleared the obstruction still actionable? Should they have not PULLED it shut to make sure their little override trick was no longer in play? is it any different than carefully holding/slowing the door as it closes so it rests gently on the strike and doesnt trip it, locking the door?

I wonder what kind of negligence is still in play by not guaranteeing it was secured before walking away considering the circumstances?

And for the record I see this action 180* from somebody ignorantly walking through a door and not realizing the closer isnt strong enough to complete the latch cycle. (making the bolt rest on the strike) Ive seen that countless times at my office. People just walk through and keep going. If the door doesnt latch behind them like it should they just dont notice. Only the next person coming inside notices its not latched. I know if it were a casual user just walking through normally, I wouldnt necessarily hold them liable if they didnt notice the door just didnt latch behind them. Thats on building maintenance or security to make sure the doors are audited and in proper working order. And MAYBE just MAYBE somebody who saw that it wasnt latching right all the time and didnt report the failures.

And I remind: this school just completed security drills that, one would reasonably assume/suspect, included testing the hardening of the security systems/failsafes, and instructions around, oh, say, propping security doors open (don't do it - and if you do it, ensuring it latches properly when closing it).

 

[Cameramonkey]

And I remind: this school just completed security drills that, one would reasonably assume/suspect, included testing the hardening of the security systems/failsafes, and instructions around, oh, say, propping security doors open (don't do it - and if you do it, ensuring it latches properly when closing it).

And assuming we are talking about thorough tests, the test should include ANY attempt to keep the door from latching. (short of propping) Dont just walk through it or open it to full swing and let go. Open it slightly and try to rest the bolt on the strike. If it doesnt close the security door that way, adjust the door until it does.

 

[KellyinAvon]

WOW!!

Agent Albarado procured his barber's shotgun and raced on foot to the school.

Jacob Albarado began clearing all the classrooms in Jayda's wing, armed with the barber's shotgun.

Uvalde hero Border Patrol agent speaks out on 'complete chaos,' rushing in to save students

Border Patrol agent Jacob Albarado rushed into Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, during last week's shooting to save students, he told 'The Ingraham Angle.'

www.foxnews.com

 

[bobzilla]

And if we don’t push back with facts and logic, they’ll bamboozle the ignorant with lies and steamroll over our rights.

THEY don't want facts and logic. Period. These people have already made up their minds and their emotions are the only thing that matters.