UAW On Strike

[Creedmoor]

40 hours.

Its a bit different when your the owner of a small to medium business.
Thats why I stated where it can.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm not in the crowd with 40 hours is to much. But I'm with the crowd that the 5 day 8 hours a day should be eliminated with careers and industry's that it can.. Loads of employers have gone to 4 10's or 12 hour days in a rotating schedule. Theirs much better options available, then working 5 days a week for eight hours.

Flexibility? fine. I am fully in favor of it. Further, I don't really have a dog in the UAW strike hunt. Generally speaking, unions and ownership negotiate and whatever both sides agree to is a bargained-for result. Good. I like bargained-for results.

I would also say that there is nothing magic about 40 hours of work a week. However, at some point it bears a little philosophical reflection as to what the "norm" should be. Work is not evil and work is not to be avoided at all cost.

Technology affords us much more leisure (generally speaking) than generations past, but I think there is such a thing as too much "down time". It's not for me to say what that is for another, but I it is good for the soul to be productive. Often, that's making a living. Sometimes it's helping others or working around the old homestead. Either way, making something, building, producing, etc....that's what humans are supposed to do.

 

[Creedmoor]

Flexibility? fine. I am fully in favor of it. Further, I don't really have a dog in the UAW strike hunt. Generally speaking, unions and ownership negotiate and whatever both sides agree to is a bargained-for result. Good. I like bargained-for results.

I would also say that there is nothing magic about 40 hours of work a week. However, at some point it bears a little philosophical reflection as to what the "norm" should be. Work is not evil and work is not to be avoided at all cost.

Technology affords us much more leisure (generally speaking) than generations past, but I think there is such a thing as too much "down time". It's not for me to say what that is for another, but I it is good for the soul to be productive. Often, that's making a living. Sometimes it's helping others or working around the old homestead. Either way, making something, building, producing, etc....that's what humans are supposed to do.

Great Post, Thanks
And I fully agree. Whats nice with lengthening the work day and shortening the work week is the benefit of more time for family or yourself at a cheaper cost. Sometimes its not cheaper for the business though.
Work is certainly not evil in the home I grew up in or my home.

 

[bobzilla]

It always turns to the derogatory comments like Union Ho, looking to bait, arguer and the best one Troll, from a few in threads like this that just can't hold up their end of the discussion.
Its irony at its best.

If it's coming from multiple people maybe it's time to take a look in the mirror.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Great Post, Thanks
And I fully agree. Whats nice with lengthening the work day and shortening the work week is the benefit of more time for family or yourself at a cheaper cost. Sometimes its not cheaper for the business though.
Work is certainly not evil in the home I grew up in or my home.

It may or may not increase time for family, a lot depends on the family and age of children, whether they are homeschooled or not, and other things. Also varies with in school or out such as during the summer. I've been on 8, 10, 12 hr shifts, and depending on the shift and family situation at the time all were better and worse. 11-7am shift was wonderful during the school year, 3-11 were the devil. But were the bomb when I was young, single, and going to the bar.

 

[Creedmoor]

It may or may not increase time for family, a lot depends on the family and age of children, whether they are homeschooled or not, and other things. Also varies with in school or out such as during the summer. I've been on 8, 10, 12 hr shifts, and depending on the shift and family situation at the time all were better and worse. 11-7am shift was wonderful during the school year, 3-11 were the devil. But were the bomb when I was young, single, and going to the bar.

I get it, single dad here. I too have done them all.
With two of my neighbors, the spouses worked opposing shifts with the kids growing up.
I think a lot of it has to do with whats at ones house, ie kids, spouse, parents, pats and so on. What I never liked was the 12 hour rotating shifts, a month of days then a month of nights. Or a 2-2-3-3 rotating between days off from days to nights or nights to days.
One place I worked we went to 2 day shift on 2 off, 3 nights on 3 off then 7 on and it was split 3 day shifts and then 3 night shifts.
And then you had 7 days off.
So with 5 weeks vacation one could get 5 two week vacations each year.

 

[HoughMade]

40 hours.

I'm starting to move back in that direction after 25 years of.....not. Notice I said "move in that direction."

 

[KLB]

Why would they, heaven forbid the lower level employees make 10-30% more income and get better benefits.

Neither of those things is a sure thing just because employees are unionized, and no company is just going to spend more on labor than they have to.

 

[bobzilla]

Neither of those things is a sure thing just because employees are unionized, and no company is just going to spend more on labor than they have to.

For sure. Especially as a supplier. Folks were not making "union bucks" but they paid their dues like everyone else.

 

[bwframe]

I've worked 3-12's and 4-10's. The reason you don't see schedules like this last for very long is that they aren't very productive. It takes a uniquely special staff to have the work ethic to make these sort of schedules work for labor productivity. Extended hour shifts like this aren't for folks that cannot bend around their home life for essentially rest and sleep at home on work days, to maintain one's stamina for productivity at work.

I loved working 3-12's, at two different businesses. For those three days though, all it was was sleep and work. No room for home projects, socializing or much in the way of parenting. The whole work week in three days was great for me, but I'm an old school worker. As a past business manager, it was terribly obvious that the folks I worked with just did not get that they had to produce for 12 hours. The business's management didn't get it either. They were half-asleep, if not all the way after lunch break, every day.

I guess those schedules might work fine for businesses that are already mapped out for low productivity? The places where the staff complain to newbies about producing too much, making the old guard look bad? The places where folks clock in and go to sleep until time to clock out?

 

[foszoe]

Stellantis looking to close 18 facilities in the US? But I was told on INGO that UAW strikes prevent that from happening.

Are rhey closed yet or is a negotiation?

 

[JCSR]

I've worked 3-12's and 4-10's. The reason you don't see schedules like this last for very long is that they aren't very productive. It takes a uniquely special staff to have the work ethic to make these sort of schedules work for labor productivity. Extended hour shifts like this aren't for folks that cannot bend around their home life for essentially rest and sleep at home on work days, to maintain one's stamina for productivity at work.

I guess those schedules might work fine for businesses that are already mapped out for low productivity? The places where the staff complain to newbies about producing too much, making the old guard look bad?

Very good point. When my crew worked 8 hour shifts we put out 6 productive hours. When we worked 12 hour shifts we put out 6 productive hours. Employees adapt to what's put before them.

 

[Creedmoor]

Very good point. When my crew worked 8 hour shifts we put out 6 productive hours. When we worked 12 hour shifts we put out 6 productive hours. Employees adapt to what's put before them.

Your crew, As a manager I would have fired you for labor theft.

 

[HoughMade]

My daughter works 3- 12 hour shifts a week, sometimes 13 or 14 hours. She loves that kind of schedule. But that's as an EMT on a ambulance crew so they need people standing by. It's not the same as manufacturing.

 

[Creedmoor]

Neither of those things is a sure thing just because employees are unionized, and no company is just going to spend more on labor than they have to.

Well you and bob are both wrong,

It pays to be in a union. Literally.
Workers who are members of labor unions in the United States make 18% more than their nonunion counterparts, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ annual report on union membership, published today.
The report shows the median weekly earnings of full-time and salary workers who were union members in 2022 were $1,216, compared with $1,029 for nonunion workers. That’s nearly $10,000 more per year.

The union difference in wages – 18% higher pay if you belong to a union

New federal data show union members earn 18% more than workers who don’t belong to unions.

www.afscme.org

 

[Creedmoor]

My daughter works 3- 12 hour shifts a week, sometimes 13 or 14 hours. She loves that kind of schedule. But that's as an EMT on a ambulance crew so they need people standing by. It's not the same as manufacturing.

The plant in Lapel, Owens Illinois Glass hourly employees voted a month or so ago, to go from 8's to 12's and keep the rotating shifts that they had on 8's
As of the first of this month they are working 12's

 

[bobzilla]

Well you and bob are both wrong,

It pays to be in a union. Literally.
Workers who are members of labor unions in the United States make 18% more than their nonunion counterparts, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ annual report on union membership, published today.
The report shows the median weekly earnings of full-time and salary workers who were union members in 2022 were $1,216, compared with $1,029 for nonunion workers. That’s nearly $10,000 more per year.

The union difference in wages – 18% higher pay if you belong to a union

New federal data show union members earn 18% more than workers who don’t belong to unions.

www.afscme.org

Your statistics are cute. Too bad reality locally has said otherwise. The UAW plant was paying $21/hr. The fork lift plant across the highway was paying $23/hr and were not union. The only thing they had going for them over the other place was they got one more week of vacation and they got to be shut down every summer without pay for 3 weeks.

But hey you stick to your stats.

 

[d.kaufman]

Well you and bob are both wrong,

It pays to be in a union. Literally.
Workers who are members of labor unions in the United States make 18% more than their nonunion counterparts, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ annual report on union membership, published today.
The report shows the median weekly earnings of full-time and salary workers who were union members in 2022 were $1,216, compared with $1,029 for nonunion workers. That’s nearly $10,000 more per year.

The union difference in wages – 18% higher pay if you belong to a union

New federal data show union members earn 18% more than workers who don’t belong to unions.

www.afscme.org

Damn. I make 20% + more than the average union member does, and all based on my personal performance with no help from a union. Huh, who'd of guessed being good at what you do can earn you a pretty good living without having to pay dues.

 

[Creedmoor]

Your statistics are cute. Too bad reality locally has said otherwise. The UAW plant was paying $21/hr. The fork lift plant across the highway was paying $23/hr and were not union. The only thing they had going for them over the other place was they got one more week of vacation and they got to be shut down every summer without pay for 3 weeks.

But hey you stick to your stats.

I notice you dont post any links?

 

[Creedmoor]

Damn. I make 20% + more than the average union member does, and all based on my personal performance with no help from a union. Huh, who'd of guessed being good at what you do can earn you a pretty good living without having to pay dues.

And what do you do for a living?