Two-Thirds of Americans Favor Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

[17 squirrel]

You can certainly build a fence, but I question its effectiveness on our southern border without other measures. None of the countries you are talking about have anything remotely like the one-way immigration pressure our southern border does. Most of the middle eastern countries you reference are openly hostile to each other, it isn't so much immigration as defection.

Sure, a lot of Zimbabwe's population isn't exactly keen on staying in Cecil's paradise, but the estimates I've read are about 30,000 illegals in Botswana. I somehow doubt that the electrified "animal fence" on the border really makes much difference.

Nope you are right about the cattle fence keeping out the illegals, but those men with those old worn out FN-FAL's tend to keep them out.
I've seen it first hand.
Like the Berlin Wall, what 500+ made it,, 150+ didn't. Those beltfeds will make you hesitate and think, is it worth it ?

 

[Fargo]

There's overlap. Engineers went to JTF-6 because building obstacles is part of the mission. Building real obstacles has more training value. Guard duty is guard duty. It doesn't matter what border its done on. Bivouac (aka camping), the logistics of supporting deployed troops, etc. All of this can be practiced just as effectively on the border as in any FTX on base. Military Intel gets great training in use of sensors, and while drones are well after my .mil time I'd suppose they are replacing the hot air balloons and radar blimps. Rotations are short. We went for 2 months. A "deployment" to NTC is 1 month. Military pilots few us down and back, getting flight hours that they need, etc. Medics looked after boo-boos. We cheated and hired a caterer, but I'm sure field kitchens could have been used. (BTW, I'd punch a baby for some of the salsa that dude made). In short this is very similar to a fake "deployment" to NTC or JRTC for many basic military skills. There are no posse commitatus issues as long as Congress authorizes it. JTF-6 started in 1989. This is not new turf.

You cannot totally secure a border. Perfection is the enemy of good enough, though. I understand that some people are still going to slip through. However the tougher it is, the fewer who will try, and the fewer who will make it. At some point, you must have armed men authorized to use force to protect the border. The more robust the obstacle they are guarding, the less force necessary because fewer people attempt to breach it. Using natural obstacles and erected obstacles, you can funnel your opponent into areas of your choosing so as to increase the efficiency of patrols. The military is uniquely suited for this in terms of skills, personnel, equipment, etc. They do not replace Border Patrol, they supplement Border Patrol.

There must be a real consequence to illegally attempting to cross. Period. Simply putting them back on their side to run again in 12 hours is ridiculous. Arresting them all is impossible. A properly designed and properly manned physical barrier with the possibility of lethal force as appropriate would cut back on your casual hoppers significantly.

BTW - We were HEAVILY recruited by BP when I was there, particularly anyone ETS-ing reasonably soon. Seemed like a poo job to me playing catch and release all day.

I can't really think of many suckier jobs than southern BP. You are a Federal LEO but your standing orders as a LEO are to not enforce most of the law.

You are being told to secure a border, but IMO the politicians have actively encouraged illegal immigration for decades, albeit for different reasons.

The Repubs like it because in some ways it helps business interests and it gives them a talking point to make sure the remnants of the Know-Nothing party vote R.

The Democrats like it because the Repub's "Know-Nothing" pandering makes it almost certain that the anchor babies vote D. Plus, if/when they can get amnesty, then you get a ton more D voters.

Neither party wants a functional guest worker program, it doesn't provide the D's with newly minted citizen voters and it alienates a certain portion of the Repub base.

Consequently, things remain the screwed up business we have had for decades.

 

[Fargo]

Nope you are right about the cattle fence keeping out the illegals, but those men with those old worn out FN-FAL's tend to keep them out.
I've seen it first hand.
Like the Berlin Wall, what 500+ made it,, 150+ didn't. Those beltfeds will make you hesitate and think, is it worth it ?

Actually, I believe of about 5000 attemptees, between 136 and 200 were killed.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I can't really think of many suckier jobs than southern BP. You are a Federal LEO but your standing orders as a LEO are to not enforce most of the law.

You are being told to secure a border, but IMO the politicians have actively encouraged illegal immigration for decades, albeit for different reasons.

The Repubs like it because in some ways it helps business interests and it gives them a talking point to make sure the remnants of the Know-Nothing party vote R.

The Democrats like it because the Repub's "Know-Nothing" pandering makes it almost certain that the anchor babies vote D. Plus, if/when they can get amnesty, then you get a ton more D voters.

Neither party wants a functional guest worker program, it doesn't provide the D's with newly minted citizen voters and it alienates a certain portion of the Repub base.

Consequently, things remain the screwed up business we have had for decades.

Well, there's a post we can agree 100% on.

I was still planning on the medical field when leaving the military at that point, but even if I had been considering LE, BP would have been aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on my list. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

Just to clarify, it wouuld not have been my top pick.

 

[Fargo]

Well, there's a post we can agree 100% on.

I was still planning on the medical field when leaving the military at that point, but even if I had been considering LE, BP would have been aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on my list. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

Just to clarify, it wouuld not have been my top pick.

Above or below TSA? (Thinking of the worst federal LE position I can)

 

[17 squirrel]

Actually, I believe of about 5000 attemptees, between 136 and 200 were killed.

What ever it is,, I'm old and slipping,, the question still is, its a big wall and a couple of soliders with beltfeds...... Are you feeling lucky ? Is it truly worth dying for ?

 

[Fargo]

What ever it is,, I'm old and slipping,, the question still is, its a big wall and a couple of soliders with beltfeds...... Are you feeling lucky ? Is it truly worth dying for ?

I don't really want to rehash my position on the morality/legality/advisability of this; I think I kinda already said my piece on it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Above or below TSA? (Thinking of the worst federal LE position I can)

TSA didn't exist then. Is TSA law enforcement? They aren't armed and I don't think they have arrest powers, but I could be wrong.

Above TSA, either way, but I'd have to be hungry and out of work.

 

[Fargo]

TSA didn't exist then. Is TSA law enforcement? They aren't armed and I don't think they have arrest powers, but I could be wrong.

Above TSA, either way, but I'd have to be hungry and out of work.

I think some of them are LE, but the standard "agents" are not. How bout this one, BP or Postal Inspector?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I think some of them are LE, but the standard "agents" are not. How bout this one, BP or Postal Inspector?

Ohhh, Postal Inspector. The only family member I have in LE is my great uncle (is that right for your grandmother's sister's son?) and he is retired Postal Inspector. When he started they didn't even carry guns. He said early on it was mostly fraud and mail theft. At the end of his career it was mostly drugs and child porn. Because he was pretty old for an LEO he was the guy who dressed up like the regular mailman and delivered the package. Sounds like fun to me.

What are those Treasury guys called who are basically security guards? That'd be way down on my list, too. Oh, and uniformed Secret Service. I worked with a guy at DynCorp who'd left there and it sounded like a poo job. Anything that's basically guard duty isn't for me. I get bored too easy. Bored cops and bored soldiers tend to make their own fun...and shenanigans ensue. I doubt I'd be a good fit for any of those positions.

While we're playing the game, Conservation Officer was the first LEO job I tried for. I think I would have liked that gig a lot.

 

[Fargo]

Ohhh, Postal Inspector. The only family member I have in LE is my great uncle (is that right for your grandmother's sister's son?) and he is retired Postal Inspector. When he started they didn't even carry guns. He said early on it was mostly fraud and mail theft. At the end of his career it was mostly drugs and child porn. Because he was pretty old for an LEO he was the guy who dressed up like the regular mailman and delivered the package. Sounds like fun to me.

What are those Treasury guys called who are basically security guards? That'd be way down on my list, too. Oh, and uniformed Secret Service. I worked with a guy at DynCorp who'd left there and it sounded like a poo job. Anything that's basically guard duty isn't for me. I get bored too easy. Bored cops and bored soldiers tend to make their own fun...and shenanigans ensue. I doubt I'd be a good fit for any of those positions.

While we're playing the game, Conservation Officer was the first LEO job I tried for. I think I would have liked that gig a lot.

Not sure the Treasury security guys, not familiar with them off the top of my head. I have a good friend who is Secret Service and considered pursuing it at one point. There was a time I think that would have been a pretty cool gig back when it was under Treasury. Since DHS took over, there seems to be an institutional malaise that would never have been tolerated in the past.

State or Federal Conservation Officer?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Not sure the Treasury security guys, not familiar with them off the top of my head. I have a good friend who is Secret Service and considered pursuing it at one point. There was a time I think that would have been a pretty cool gig back when it was under Treasury. Since DHS took over, there seems to be an institutional malaise that would never have been tolerated in the past.

State or Federal Conservation Officer?

State. I applied with Indiana before I went to work for DynCorp and washed out at the psych/aptitude test. My wife (at the time) was a psych nurse and told me I picked the wrong choices. It was questions like "would you rather be a chef or a ballet dancer?" and "would you rather be a pilot or a steward?" I picked chef and pilot. Those were the wrong answers. The other two work in front of people and those are the ones I should have picked, per her. I just thought "Funny hat...tutu...funny hat...tutu....we're going funny hat. Who wants to pass out Cokes when you could fly a plane? Pilot." Etc.

Ah, looks like the Treasury guys don't exist any longer, they got merged with uniformed Secret Service.

Also looks like TSA doesn't have arrest authority. Airport police or CBP make the arrests when necessary. I might be wrong, but a quick overview seems to support this.

 

[Fargo]

State. I applied with Indiana before I went to work for DynCorp and washed out at the psych/aptitude test. My wife (at the time) was a psych nurse and told me I picked the wrong choices. It was questions like "would you rather be a chef or a ballet dancer?" and "would you rather be a pilot or a steward?" I picked chef and pilot. Those were the wrong answers. The other two work in front of people and those are the ones I should have picked, per her. I just thought "Funny hat...tutu...funny hat...tutu....we're going funny hat. Who wants to pass out Cokes when you could fly a plane? Pilot." Etc.

Ah, looks like the Treasury guys don't exist any longer, they got merged with uniformed Secret Service.

Also looks like TSA doesn't have arrest authority. Airport police or CBP make the arrests when necessary. I might be wrong, but a quick overview seems to support this.

As I think about it, I believe you are correct on the TSA. I believe the guys I was thinking were TSA LEO's were actually CBP.

Indiana's DNR has a really different take on applicants and selection. Someone gave me one of their recruitment brochures the other day and it actually has a section about how to be a top candidates you should not consume pornography.

Now, anyone who knows me, knows that for religious reasons I'm not a porn guy, but I thought it a curious addition to the brochure.

 

[OakRiver]

Federal convictions are a tiny anomalous percentage of all convictions. Keep trying.

There are 30 state prosecutions for every one federal.


Federal vs. State Courts - Key Differences - FindLaw

Yet I see you continue to offer nothing to rebut the figures, and instead are shifting the goalposts.

Would you prefer the figure 73,665? That's the number of incarcerated illegal aliens at state and federal level according to the Bureau of Justical Statistics. So that is a significant number of people who should not even be in the country, but which the tax payer is paying to incarcerate.

If you look at post 144, you will see that I in no way advocate for inaction. In fact, I advocated both for beefing up the border and deportation.

What I won't advocate for is shooting them or some sort of mass indiscriminate roundup without doing anything to mitigate the 30 plus years we haven't enforced the law...

But in prior posts you lamented an increase in taxes for "some kind of fortress" on the border and breaking up families. Which is it?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

you should not consume pornography.

 

[Fargo]

Yet I see you continue to offer nothing to rebut the figures, and instead are shifting the goalposts.

Would you prefer the figure 73,665? That's the number of incarcerated illegal aliens at state and federal level according to the Bureau of Justical Statistics. So that is a significant number of people who should not even be in the country, but which the tax payer is paying to incarcerate.


But in prior posts you lamented an increase in taxes for "some kind of fortress" on the border and breaking up families. Which is it?

I'm sitting here, with the kids all asleep, having a pleasant evening and considering cracking a beer. All your questions have been previously answered in posts from last night or this afternoon.

I hope you have an equally pleasant evening.

 

[Fargo]

Yup, if memory serves that is the actual phrase on the brochure or at least close to it. I'll have to see if I can find it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yup, if memory serves that is the actual phrase on the brochure or at least close to it. I'll have to see if I can find it.

Not Conservation Officer material, but safe from his wife finding his stash.

 

[Fargo]

Not Conservation Officer material, but safe from his wife finding his stash.

Is that a younger thinner Printcraft?

They have something similar on their website!

5. Demonstrate integrity, sound judgment, honesty and trustworthiness

• Get in shape. A quarter of registered candidates withdraw because they can’t pass the training.
• Make healthy lifestyle choices (for example, refrain from pornography and imprudent social networking)
• Have positive social relationships
• Engage in positive recreational pursuits

DNR: Becoming a Conservation Officer

I now must find the brochure. I wonder if "Fur Fish and Game" is considered DNR porn?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is the best thread derail ever. From a BS poll to complete hijacking to discuss if Conservation Officers should be eating porn. This is why I love INGO.