Two-Thirds of Americans Favor Citizenship for Illegal Immigrants

[BugI02]

I highly recommend 3 Floyds Cimmerian Sabertooth Berzerker.

Seventh Son's Strong American Ale would get my vote currently

 

[GREEN607]

In WWII we "removed" approximately 16 Million men from the US workforce, and our citizens still managed to fund and produce an enormous quantity of war materiel. In 1945, many of those men came back and eventually managed to find their place in the American economy. If you don't pay people NOT to work, they will find available work. We shouldn't be paying illegals either to work or NOT to work in this country; American citizens will pick up the slack (despite your anecdotal experiences to the contrary.)

​Couldn't have said it better!

 

[GREEN607]

Not a study at all. An annual poll of republican and democrat voters that has been going on and collecting data for many years. Even 50% of republicans support a pathway to citizenship.

Then those 'voters' need to get an education regarding reality,
where the 'condition' of the U.S. economy is, currently.

No way, can the U.S. economy continue to support (thru wages or handouts)....the number of illegal aliens that have already snuck in.... let alone another 1 million per year.

My fellow citizens, if you think it is a good idea to let them all remain here..... consider the cost of housing, transportation (cars @ twenty to forty thousand???) , etc.... and ask why it's skyrocketing... IT IS THE DEMAND FOR PRODUCT that comes from having eleven million illegals thrown into the economy!

And answer this, please.... Why would anyone think a path to U.S. citizenship should be made available to those eleven millions... when they are illegals???Is that the sort of 'citizens' we want? Those who broke the law and creeped into our society as their chosen route to citizenship?

 

[El-Cigarro]

X 2

 

[OakRiver]

And answer this, please.... Why would anyone think a path to U.S. citizenship should be made available to those eleven millions... when they are illegals???Is that the sort of 'citizens' we want? Those who broke the law and creeped into our society as their chosen route to citizenship?

I agree. Nothing says "I want to become a member of your society" quite like thinking the law doesn't apply to you and that you are going to ignore it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

No way, can the U.S. economy continue to support (thru wages or handouts)....the number of illegal aliens that have already snuck in.... let alone another 1 million per year.

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home | Daily Mail Online

Immigrants send $120 billion out of the US each year. Now that counts legal and illegal immigrants, and you'd have to dig around a bit to see what proportion of that population is legal...but that's a lot of cash taken out of circulation in our own economy. I often use the water/water wheel analogy. It doesn't matter how much water you have, if it isn't moving it isn't doing any work and the water wheel sits idle.

"...fundamental to the creation and production of wealth is the circulation and movement of that wealth. Without circulation in an economy, the richest of men will starve. It is essential for the health of an economic system, regardless of how much money there is, that the wealth circulates among the people who are the producers in the system. Otherwise, we starve in the land of plenty..."

One of the signs of a successful local economy is how many times a dollar circulates in that economy before leaving. Every time a dollar changes hands it did work, economically speaking. This is often cited as one of the reasons that communities of Asians in the US do better economically than similar enclaves of other immigrants. They churn the dollar in their community more times before it exits, benefiting more people.

The power of circulation is huge from an older TIME article:

The New Economics Foundation, an independent economic think tank based in London, compared what happens when people buy produce at a supermarket vs. a local farmer's market or community supported agriculture (CSA) program and found that twice the money stayed in the community when folks bought locally. "That means those purchases are twice as efficient in terms of keeping the local economy alive," says author and NEF researcher David Boyle.

Indeed, says Boyle, many local economies are languishing not because too little cash comes in, but as a result of what happens to that money. "Money is like blood. It needs to keep moving around to keep the economy going," he says, noting that when money is spent elsewhere—at big supermarkets, non-locally owned utilities and other services such as on-line retailers—"it flows out, like a wound." By shopping at the corner store instead of the big box, consumers keep their communities from becoming what the NEF calls "ghost towns" (areas devoid of neighborhood shops and services) or "clone towns", where Main Street now looks like every other Main Street with the same fast-food and retail chains.

When you have people that are both depressing the wages of the consumers who spend the highest portion of their income AND siphoning off cash before it circulates then the damage to the economy is significantly more than even the simple dollar amount, which is bad enough.

 

[Dead Duck]

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home | Daily Mail Online

Immigrants send $120 billion out of the US each year. Now that counts legal and illegal immigrants, and you'd have to dig around a bit to see what proportion of that population is legal...but that's a lot of cash taken out of circulation in our own economy. I often use the water/water wheel analogy. It doesn't matter how much water you have, if it isn't moving it isn't doing any work and the water wheel sits idle.

"...fundamental to the creation and production of wealth is the circulation and movement of that wealth. Without circulation in an economy, the richest of men will starve. It is essential for the health of an economic system, regardless of how much money there is, that the wealth circulates among the people who are the producers in the system. Otherwise, we starve in the land of plenty..."

One of the signs of a successful local economy is how many times a dollar circulates in that economy before leaving. Every time a dollar changes hands it did work, economically speaking. This is often cited as one of the reasons that communities of Asians in the US do better economically than similar enclaves of other immigrants. They churn the dollar in their community more times before it exits, benefiting more people.

The power of circulation is huge from an older TIME article:



When you have people that are both depressing the wages of the consumers who spend the highest portion of their income AND siphoning off cash before it circulates then the damage to the economy is significantly more than even the simple dollar amount, which is bad enough.

Yep-
I was with Bank of America in CA when they started their new program to make it easier for Mexican "immigrants" to send money back home.
It was targeted here, in America for Mexican "workers" here, in America to send their money home, in Mexico. The ads and lifesized posters in the bank showed "pickers" smiling in the fields and a Hispanicish bank teller holding her helping hands out all with spanish texts. This was 05 I believe and lets face it, it was southern CA and I was most certainly the minority.



If you don't understand what I'm saying,

* Press 2 for English...

 

[poptab]

Are we blaming the bad economy on Immigrants as well now?

What else can we blame on them?

 

[Dead Duck]

Are we blaming the bad economy on Immigrants as well now?

What else can we blame on them?

Refried Beans......

 

[OakRiver]

Are we blaming the bad economy on Immigrants as well now?

What else can we blame on them?

Pointing out the economic impact of illegal immigration =/= blaming the bad economy on immigrants

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Are we blaming the bad economy on Immigrants as well now?

What else can we blame on them?

Would you care to dispute any of the facts presented?

Pointing out the economic impact of illegal immigration =/= blaming the bad economy on immigrants

Exactly. Facts are pesky things, particularly when they get in the way of rhetoric. The only thing left is to attempt to re-frame and distract.

 

[Dead Duck]

.........and menudo.
I definitely blame them for menudo.

I mean really, who can eat that **** anyway?








........not the band.

 

[poptab]

Would you care to dispute any of the facts presented?



Exactly. Facts are pesky things, particularly when they get in the way of rhetoric. The only thing left is to attempt to re-frame and distract.

Nope. I'm just here to troll.

Here is a pesky fact. Immigrants gonna immigrate. Have fun trying to stop it.

Lol.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Nope. I'm just here to troll.

Here is a pesky fact. Immigrants gonna immigrate. Have fun trying to stop it.

Lol.

It can be done, at least when we don't have a bunch of spineless nancy-boys left in charge of security.

 

[poptab]

It can be done, at least when we don't have a bunch of spineless nancy-boys left in charge of security.

Dave I do not think a giant fence is consistent with smaller government.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Dave I do not think a giant fence is consistent with smaller government.

You are taking what in general is a sound idea and reducing it to its point of absurdity. The problem with the size and scope of government is entirely the product of its failure to operate within the 18 subsections of Article I Section 8 of the Constitution which is as follows:

Section 8
1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

It seems pretty self-explanatory that the only problem is that the government is shirking its duty regarding immigration. Foreign commerce may seem to be a stretch, but when the government of Mexico is actively assisting the invaders in doing so, it would seem to apply. I would also point out that at the time of the drafting on the Constitution 'building' took on a broader meaning than that commonly accepted today of being 4 walls with a roof.

The problem with the size of government in NOT in its failure to carry out one of its enumerated duties but rather in the number of things it does with no constitutional authority whatsoever. Correct this imbalance, and the proper duties can be carried out and we won't even notice the cost of securing the border.

 

[OakRiver]

Nope. I'm just here to troll.

Here is a pesky fact. Immigrants gonna immigrate. Have fun trying to stop it.

Lol.

You seem to be conflating legal and illegal immigration. I have absolutely no issue with anyone immigrating. I just ask that it is done in accordance with the laws of the host country.

Dave I do not think a giant fence is consistent with smaller government.

As already pointed out immigration and naturalization are part of the defined role of the government.

 

[AA&E]

I'm trying to understand the logistics of manning a 1950 mile fence with enough gunners to keep anyone who wants from driving through it. Logistically, the East Germans struggled to do so with an approx 87 mile solid wall. This is a logistical question, not whatever political analogy you desperately seem to want it to be.

Much easier than you think it would be...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_based_operational_surveillance_system

Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton > Staff & Agencies > Assistant Chief of Staff G-3/5 > Training Support Division > Training Devices > Ground Based Operational Surveillance System

 

[AA&E]

What percentage of murders and kidnappings in the US are committed by illegal aliens? I honestly want to know the answer.

If the answer is more than none, it's too many IMO.

 

[AA&E]

I'm not going to be trolled back into an argument of futility.

Have a nice evening.

No trolling on my part my good man. But after you were unable to provide any evidence, quit the discussion twice, and continue to return to get the last word I'll turn the floor back over to you.

Have a nice evening.

LOL, did you even read that post before you hit the post button?

You proclaim no trolling, then troll me again the next sentence.

To be honest, you didn't provide any evidence what so ever that the state charges differ from federal charges. You discredited the statistics he posted for being only federal charges and than offered nothing to validate your statement after that. Many local and state law enforcement agencies have made public statements regarding the frustrations they have with a lack of response from federal officials regarding illegals committing crimes in their jurisdictions. After they serve their sentences the local law enforcement have no choice but to release them because they aren't legally permitted to enforce immigration law and the feds do not choose to do so. If this weren't an issue, we wouldn't be hearing about it.